Where is this sheat from?

[Sajen]

The long crack I've seen but this is not exactly what I understand under age crack.

[Sajen]

BTW, I have got an old Coteng hilt (together with a keris) for my sheath.

Look here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT

And here the pictures from the well known seller.

[A. G. Maisey]

Sajen, this comment is not specifically directed at the hilt you have purchased, however, I've had a look at the items this seller lists for sale, and I was wondering exactly what sort of time span permits the description "old".

+100 years?

+ 50 years?

+ 20 years?

+ 5 years?

+ 12 months?

+24 hours?

Anybody have any ideas on what length of time makes "old" an acceptable description?

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Sajen, this comment is not specifically directed at the hilt you have purchased, however, I've had a look at the items this seller lists for sale, and I was wondering exactly what sort of time span permits the description "old".

I read that you are not directing your comment specifically at this hilt, but given it's placement do you have reason to believe that this hilt does not have any significant age?

[A. G. Maisey]

In respect of Sajen's hilt, I do not know, because I cannot see it clearly enough.

What generated my question was the the other "old" items I have seen on this site, which are not necessarily keris related.

The comment is not about Sajen's hilt, it is about the concept of old.

A few months ago a friend bought an "old" keris hilt from an ebay seller in Queensland. He showed it to me and asked my opinion. It was about as old as last weekend's Sydney Morning Herald.

When he queried the description of "old" with the seller he was told it was most certainly old, in that it was no longer "new" --- whatever that might mean.

So now I'm asking for opinions on what we might think "old" means.

[David]

In regards to keris i wouldn't refer to anything that isn't at least pre-WW2 as "old", though that certainly isn't "really old".
In common practice something isn't considered "antique" until it is at least 100 years old, but i think it is fair to use the term old for items that don't quite qualify for "antique".

[Rick]

I'd accept 80 yrs as old ; antique is another matter; must be 100 yrs old .

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Sajen, this comment is not specifically directed at the hilt you have purchased, however, I've had a look at the items this seller lists for sale, and I was wondering exactly what sort of time span permits the description "old".

+100 years?

+ 50 years?

+ 20 years?

+ 5 years?

+ 12 months?

+24 hours?

Anybody have any ideas on what length of time makes "old" an acceptable description?

Alan, I read a little bit in some pages at the net to get some informations. Antique is on the most pages described by an age fom 100 years + but also for example by furniture of Art Deco periode which can't be old like this.
Since antique is old in latin language and you want to take it by the word have to be "old" more than 100 years old.
But when you look to other items which are collected by people and often described as "old" you can't use this parameter.
I am with Kai Wee by this, twenty years can be "old".
I have had a look again to the sold items from this seller and I think that most of the items are described as old are more than 50 years old. But I have to say that I can be wrong by this since the pictures are not very clear.

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I am with Kai Wee by this, twenty years can be "old".

I think that we need to discuss this question in regards to keris, not furniture or for that matter the moldy "old" tub of hummus sitting in the back of the fridge.
I don't think i would ever refer to a 20 year old keris as "old". I would probably call it "contemporary".
I would also like to remind everyone that Alan's question is an independent one, not based on this seller's eBay list. Let's keep the seller out of the conversation please.

[A. G. Maisey]

David, I'm afraid that I am compelled to mention the seller again.

My original post where I mentioned the seller's other items was out of order.

I apologise unreservedly for this.

I was and am unaware of the seller's identity, and when I went to ebay and clicked "sellers other items" I got a list of items that I have since found were not related in any way to the seller of Sajen's hilt.

However, although this ebay glitch did cause an error in the wording of my original post, I do consider the question I raised a valid one, but in no way related to Sajen's hilt, nor to the seller of it.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, I'm afraid that I am compelled to mention the seller again.

My original post where I mentioned the seller's other items was out of order.

I apologise unreservedly for this.

I was and am unaware of the seller's identity, and when I went to ebay and clicked "sellers other items" I got a list of items that I have since found were not related in any way to the seller of Sajen's hilt.

However, although this ebay glitch did cause an error in the wording of my original post, I do consider the question I raised a valid one, but in no way related to Sajen's hilt, nor to the seller of it.

Agreed Alan. Good topic for discussion. Let's continue...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

I think that we need to discuss this question in regards to keris, not furniture or for that matter the moldy "old" tub of hummus sitting in the back of the fridge.
I don't think i would ever refer to a 20 year old keris as "old". I would probably call it "contemporary".
I would also like to remind everyone that Alan's question is an independent one, not based on this seller's eBay list. Let's keep the seller out of the conversation please.

Agree complete with you that a twenty years "old" keris is a contemporary keris. What I want to say with my previous post is that it can be a matter of opinion and the item by it's own what is declared as "old" or "antique".
And again in regards to keris I would say that it is ok to declare a 50 years old keris as old or older.

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by Sajen

BTW, I have got an old Coteng hilt (together with a keris) for my sheath.

Look here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT

And here the pictures from the well known seller.

Nice blade! It deserves a proper dress. Try to get one commissioned in N. Malaysia!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by BluErf

Nice blade! It deserves a proper dress. Try to get one commissioned in N. Malaysia!

Hallo Kai Wee, do you think that the dress which coming with the blade isn't a proper dress as well?
And what you think about the Coteng hilt?

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hallo Kai Wee, do you think that the dress which coming with the blade isn't a proper dress as well?
And what you think about the Coteng hilt?

Not Kai Wee of course but i would say that the sheath that came with this most certainly is not correct and that the pendokok also needs replacing as it is the wrong form and too large for the hilt.
Hopefully when you recieve this you can post some better photos of the hilt and blade. The Coteng hilt appears authentic and of some age (whatever that means ), but the photos are really poor and making any real assessments here is difficult.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

Not Kai Wee of course but i would say that the sheath that came with this most certainly is not correct and that the pendokok also needs replacing as it is the wrong form and too large for the hilt.
Hopefully when you recieve this you can post some better photos of the hilt and blade. The Coteng hilt appears authentic and of some age (whatever that means ), but the photos are really poor and making any real assessments here is difficult.

Every comment is welcome! That the pendokok isn't the correct form is clearly to seen. But you are right, let us wait until I have received the keris and I can take some pictures from the hilt and also pictures how the blade fit inside the sheath. But I am hopeful that all parts are with good age and to my eyes it seems that all parts are from Peninsula.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hallo Kai Wee, do you think that the dress which coming with the blade isn't a proper dress as well?
And what you think about the Coteng hilt?

The dress is not appropriate for the hilt or blade.. The blade looks Pattani to me.. a nice blade indeed, (a pity I couldn't get it myself). The blade deserves new fittings in classic Pattani form. A 'tebeng' sheath with a Pekaka hilt would look appropriate. The hilt ring can be reused with the new hilt. The nice Coteng hilt can sit by itself on a hilt stand, if there's nothing matching for it.. The Malay Bugis sheath, you could try with your Malay Bugis (Terengganu) blade.. the one with the broken kembang kacang.. (just a suggestion).

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The dress is not appropriate for the hilt or blade.. The blade looks Pattani to me.. a nice blade indeed, (a pity I couldn't get it myself). The blade deserves new fittings in classic Pattani form. A 'tebeng' sheath with a Pekaka hilt would look appropriate. The hilt ring can be reused with the new hilt. The nice Coteng hilt can sit by itself on a hilt stand, if there's nothing matching for it.. The Malay Bugis sheath, you could try with your Malay Bugis (Terengganu) blade.. the one with the broken kembang kacang.. (just a suggestion).

Alam, thank you very much for your comment. Blade look Pattani to me also but I have thought that the dress (sheath) is Pattani also. Please can show me a example of a tebeng sheath?
The Coteng hilt I want to use together with the Malay Bugis blade (the one with the broken kembang kacang) with my Coteng sheath from #3 in this thread. Do you think that this is matching?
Thank you again and best regards,

Detlef

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Sajen

.. Please can show me a example of a tebeng sheath?
The Coteng hilt I want to use together with the Malay Bugis blade (the one with the broken kembang kacang) with my Coteng sheath from #3 in this thread. Do you think that this is matching?
Thank you again and best regards,

Detlef

Example of a 'tebeng' sheath form..

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=99490

The Coteng hilt is not matching with the Malay Bugis blade..
If possible, try to get a 'chenok' type blade.. see attached linked pic.

(Paul De Souza's example)..
Hope it helps..