Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2nd November 2010, 04:08 PM   #1
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,190
Default

Hi Steve,
Thank you for acknowledging my post, and very good points you make on the brass dots in Chinese weapons. I really dont believe the blade is from India, the jambiyya blades I believe were typically made locally even as trade blades prevailed for swords. Daggers are a much more personal weapon, and this is in my opinion why they dont carry a lot of the variety of markings seen on sword blades. Obviously there tend to be more in the way of inscriptions and the like, but usually they do not have makers cartouche etc.

All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2010, 03:35 AM   #2
Steve
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 58
Default

Jim and others,
There's not much more to add except that a local contact in Yemen tells me "the dotted blade is very rare and the dots are supposed to signify the kills the blade has had. Evidently the dots are in what is known as the "poison" area of the blade". This is as told to him.
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd November 2010, 07:25 AM   #3
Ron Anderson
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 228
Default

Hi Steve

That does sound a bit like a myth to me.

I frequently hear this on all sorts of weapons. Something represents the number of people killed. And usually this is not factual. Usually, this is simply a myth.

I've heard it on some Indo-persian weapons, where a hole in the blade was said to represent a kill, but that turned out to be nonsense. And I've heard it on other things here and there too.

I can't tell you much about these dots, but they look very symmetical – a designed element. And I think it's unlikely they would be there to designate a head count.

I suspect people tend to get carried away with unlikely stories on swords and knives.
Ron Anderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th November 2010, 04:28 PM   #4
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
Jim and others,
There's not much more to add except that a local contact in Yemen tells me "the dotted blade is very rare and the dots are supposed to signify the kills the blade has had. Evidently the dots are in what is known as the "poison" area of the blade". This is as told to him.
Hi Steve,
As Ron well notes, recording 'kills' on blades is pure myth...and perhaps the individual suggesting this may be thinking of one of the many 'gunfighter myths' with notches in the handle of thier guns. This too is pure fantasy of course
In many cases the blade itself may be considered poison or evil in the sense that iron and steel were in many cases in religious beliefs. It is the blade that causes death in that perspective and the gold metal in that position would intervene to protect the person using the weapon. These same type beliefs are well known in North Africa, leading to the use of brass on forms of Tuareg hilts or thier being covered with leather, to prevent the hand from touching the iron. The Hindu's use brass in much the same manner for hilts in many cases.

The seven star groupings are indeed associated with the celestial aspects of Chinese religion and tradition noting the constellation 'big dipper' but also have to do with a fabled blade making area in China which I believe was known as the 'seven wells'. I cannot recall details offhand, but I believe this was in a manner of thinking, comparable to Solingen in the high quality of the blades. As I add this from memory alone I hope that is somewhat correct, and look forward to corrections as need be.

As I mentioned, the use of a gold nail or inlay in blades as early as Frankish times were placed to attest to the quality or perhaps imbue talismanic properties as mentioned. This was well known in the Arab world as well, and was noted in al Kindi.

The janbiyya is a key element of status and tradition in Arabia, and the use of rhino horn is a prevalent part of the weapon for its imbued properties as well. While simple in appearance, this dagger may have carried important value to its owner and likely served as a vital part of his persona in perspectives held dearly in his culture. Even weapons considered tourist wares are sometimes intended for local purposes I would presume, and would find use accordingly.

Best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.