Brass dots on a blade??

[Steve]

Hi, yes the hilt is made from rhino horn. Quite old and I've had to fill some worm holes to keep it all together. The chinese imitation of rhino horn is now very, very good. It even has the texture right.

Thanks Jim, as always, for your thoughts on the brass spots. A little more research has filled in that the chinese jian swords often have these dots, seven of them as representing the "big dipper" in the great Bear constellation. This is evidently important in martial arts, possibly relating to an ancient historic warrior who carried a sword with that pattern. So its mystic and decorative.
Evidently, they are also found on the Barong. Probably made by chinese smiths who work in the Philippines.

As this is extremely rare in the southern arabian peninsula, I am wondering if the blade was imported from, say, India?
I am interested if there are other opinions??
steve

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Steve,
Thank you for acknowledging my post, and very good points you make on the brass dots in Chinese weapons. I really dont believe the blade is from India, the jambiyya blades I believe were typically made locally even as trade blades prevailed for swords. Daggers are a much more personal weapon, and this is in my opinion why they dont carry a lot of the variety of markings seen on sword blades. Obviously there tend to be more in the way of inscriptions and the like, but usually they do not have makers cartouche etc.

All the best,
Jim

[Steve]

Jim and others,
There's not much more to add except that a local contact in Yemen tells me "the dotted blade is very rare and the dots are supposed to signify the kills the blade has had. Evidently the dots are in what is known as the "poison" area of the blade". This is as told to him.

[Ron Anderson]

Hi Steve

That does sound a bit like a myth to me.

I frequently hear this on all sorts of weapons. Something represents the number of people killed. And usually this is not factual. Usually, this is simply a myth.

I've heard it on some Indo-persian weapons, where a hole in the blade was said to represent a kill, but that turned out to be nonsense. And I've heard it on other things here and there too.

I can't tell you much about these dots, but they look very symmetical – a designed element. And I think it's unlikely they would be there to designate a head count.

I suspect people tend to get carried away with unlikely stories on swords and knives.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Steve

Jim and others,
There's not much more to add except that a local contact in Yemen tells me "the dotted blade is very rare and the dots are supposed to signify the kills the blade has had. Evidently the dots are in what is known as the "poison" area of the blade". This is as told to him.

Hi Steve,
As Ron well notes, recording 'kills' on blades is pure myth...and perhaps the individual suggesting this may be thinking of one of the many 'gunfighter myths' with notches in the handle of thier guns. This too is pure fantasy of course
In many cases the blade itself may be considered poison or evil in the sense that iron and steel were in many cases in religious beliefs. It is the blade that causes death in that perspective and the gold metal in that position would intervene to protect the person using the weapon. These same type beliefs are well known in North Africa, leading to the use of brass on forms of Tuareg hilts or thier being covered with leather, to prevent the hand from touching the iron. The Hindu's use brass in much the same manner for hilts in many cases.

The seven star groupings are indeed associated with the celestial aspects of Chinese religion and tradition noting the constellation 'big dipper' but also have to do with a fabled blade making area in China which I believe was known as the 'seven wells'. I cannot recall details offhand, but I believe this was in a manner of thinking, comparable to Solingen in the high quality of the blades. As I add this from memory alone I hope that is somewhat correct, and look forward to corrections as need be.

As I mentioned, the use of a gold nail or inlay in blades as early as Frankish times were placed to attest to the quality or perhaps imbue talismanic properties as mentioned. This was well known in the Arab world as well, and was noted in al Kindi.

The janbiyya is a key element of status and tradition in Arabia, and the use of rhino horn is a prevalent part of the weapon for its imbued properties as well. While simple in appearance, this dagger may have carried important value to its owner and likely served as a vital part of his persona in perspectives held dearly in his culture. Even weapons considered tourist wares are sometimes intended for local purposes I would presume, and would find use accordingly.

Best regards,
Jim

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Steve

As this is extremely rare in the southern arabian peninsula, I am wondering if the blade was imported from, say, India?
I am interested if there are other opinions??
steve

Hi Steve,

Purely speculation but I'd support India as this piece came from a very old collection of Indian only weapons.

Gav

[Jim McDougall]

That makes perfect sense actually Gav, as the janbiyya was by no means restricted to Arabia alone, and found use, sometimes in varying hilts and blade types throughout the Islamic World. The Arab trade on the entire west coast of India would of course be likely, and the three dot configurations are well known on tulwars and many Indian weapons as representative of the Trimurti.

All the best,
Jim

[Steve]

Thanks for the input at the end there, Gav and Jim. I think what I've got is certainly an Hadhrami rhino hilt wedded, probably, to an Indian blade. From Gav's comment it would make sense if the ceremony took place in India. After looking at 100's of yemeni blades it's the only one I've seen with this type of decoration. Thanks again, Steve

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Steve,
You are most welcome, and I think you're spot on in the application of the dots probably going on in India. It has always seemed to me that dagger blades were the one edged weapon constant in Arabia, while sword blades gave way to imports. Naturally the profound settlement of Arabs in India would establish those artisans there as well.

The trimurti configuration on Indian blades often appears on strategic locations on blades, such as at terminus of fullers, blade root and the like, so it would seem that the placement here is for specific purpose. As always the application of marks, symbols and certain motif is often only temporally known by the individual making them or requesting them placed on the weapon. I would imagine in this location on your janbiyya, these are placed talismanically to prevent effects from the negative forces of the iron in the blade or if used, from the victim. Perhaps this might explain the 'poison' in the blade story.

I think this interesting janbiyya is an excellent example of how even the simplest appearing weapon can be an entirely fascinating example of ethnographica full of exciting tales. Very nice!

All the best,
Jim

[archer]

Hi Steve, Here's another one dots are not the same size? They appear to be copper. the components could older than the blade.

Steve

[David R]

I have a Syrian dagger with the three dot inlay in copper, in addition to two teardrops in yellow metal and two plain large dots in copper, all arranged symetricaly down the blade . They could have a meaning, but then again, they could be just simple decoration.
I think in some cases, a single nail/rivit at random, they are just a way of hiding a flaw in the blade.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Steve

Thanks for the input at the end there, Gav and Jim. I think what I've got is certainly an Hadhrami rhino hilt wedded, probably, to an Indian blade. From Gav's comment it would make sense if the ceremony took place in India. After looking at 100's of yemeni blades it's the only one I've seen with this type of decoration. Thanks again, Steve

Speculatively speaking, as the collection as a whole appeared to be from the North western frontiers of India, could the blade be from the Afghan regions and the dots represent Timurs banner?