Mutilated Kaskara on Ebay

Jim McDougall · 31st October 2010, 07:11 PM

Very well put Gene! It seems to me to parallel the unscrupulous pillaging of archeological sites by hoarders and hawkers. These weapons are often in effect anthropological sites in themselves holding important historical information. How unfortunate that too many dont see them that way.

Giving more thought to the 'enigmatic' symbols seen on these blades.
While I mentioned the 'bee' symbol used in Solingen, the thought of the scorpion device often seen on Italian blades through the 16th century and probably later. Again, while these were typically makers marks, it does seem that the scorpion was perceived in folk religion as an apotropaic.

In Arabian sa'if, the scabbard often has a stylized device at the throat of the scabbard termed the 'aghrab' (=scorpion). This geometrically stylized device, no matter how I look at it, does not resemble an actual scorpion to me, but regardless, this is how it is perceived.
Among the Berber tribes in Kabylia, the well known flyssa has such attention to apotropaic devices in geometric style it is nearly a stereotype.

In a review of the work by Jean Gabus ("Au Sahara II, 1958) it is noted that the author strives to show the manner in which each artisan may interpret the symbolism for his own ends. This work reflects eight field investigations of Mauretanians, Tuareg and Fulani from 1942-1958 by the Musee d'Ethnographie of Nuechatel.

Perhaps the apotropaic explanation as a device to protect from the evil eye might be at the root of the enigmatic marking?
What say you Stephen?

All best regards,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 2nd November 2010, 04:09 PM

RIP

stephen wood · 3rd November 2010, 12:36 AM

...well, going back to the multiple-marked sword from Anthony North's collection for example, where the wolf, the cross and orb, the lion, the pious text and the enigmatic "comet" coexist, I think we could break down Sudanese/Tuareg marks into types: some which are intended to show the quality of the blade, some which are pre-Islamic talismans, some - like koranic scripts - explicitly Islamic. And a single mark might move to and fro between categories. So we get to the point where, for example, a virtually unintelligable Thuluth phrase gets repeated around a blade like a mantra - text becomes talisman.

Jim McDougall · 3rd November 2010, 01:07 AM

Thanks, its good to hear your perspective Stephen. That does seem like a viable solution.

Rumpel · 3rd November 2010, 10:53 PM

Ref trans-Sahelian stylistic transmission generally, the Pitt Rivers is reassuringly vague:

"The flaring leaf-shaped lower portion of the scabbard is said to represent the head of a crocodile and can also seen on the scabbard of the straight kaskara sword of the Eastern Sudan, on the opposite side of the continent’s Sudanic belt. Some scholars think the most plausible explanation for the unusual scabbard form appearing in two places over 3000 miles apart is that it was carried westward across the Sudan by successive waves of Islamic warriors over the last one thousand years."

So, like, yeah. OK.

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ica/1929.12.3/

I guess the same may or may not go for other stylistic aspects. Perhaps.

Jim McDougall · 4th November 2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumpel

Ref trans-Sahelian stylistic transmission generally, the Pitt Rivers is reassuringly vague:

"The flaring leaf-shaped lower portion of the scabbard is said to represent the head of a crocodile and can also seen on the scabbard of the straight kaskara sword of the Eastern Sudan, on the opposite side of the continent’s Sudanic belt. Some scholars think the most plausible explanation for the unusual scabbard form appearing in two places over 3000 miles apart is that it was carried westward across the Sudan by successive waves of Islamic warriors over the last one thousand years."

So, like, yeah. OK.

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ica/1929.12.3/

I guess the same may or may not go for other stylistic aspects. Perhaps.

Its true, some scholars do follow that plausible assumption based on the obvious association by shape on the scabbard tip. In Burton's "Book of the Sword" one of his drawings presumes the kaskara tip also had the flared tip as seen on the scabbard. I personally have never seen a kaskara nor takouba with such a flared tip.

The complexity of the trans Saharan caravans, tribal interaction, Pilgrimages eastward by Muslims to Mecca as well as interconnecting trade via many centers are all factors naturally leading into the diffusion of these influences.
There are many similarities in weapons of Morocco seen on the opposite side of the continent as far as Zanzibar, and the flared tip scabbard seen on the Manding scabbards in Mali is indeed noted. Also notable is the guardless hilt of the Manding sabre resembling the kattara of Oman, whose influence travelled westward from the Omani Sultanate in Zanzibar across the trade routes to Mali, one of the key cultural centers of Islam.

31st October 2010, 07:11 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Very well put Gene! It seems to me to parallel the unscrupulous pillaging of archeological sites by hoarders and hawkers. These weapons are often in effect anthropological sites in themselves holding important historical information. How unfortunate that too many dont see them that way. Giving more thought to the 'enigmatic' symbols seen on these blades. While I mentioned the 'bee' symbol used in Solingen, the thought of the scorpion device often seen on Italian blades through the 16th century and probably later. Again, while these were typically makers marks, it does seem that the scorpion was perceived in folk religion as an apotropaic. In Arabian sa'if, the scabbard often has a stylized device at the throat of the scabbard termed the 'aghrab' (=scorpion). This geometrically stylized device, no matter how I look at it, does not resemble an actual scorpion to me, but regardless, this is how it is perceived. Among the Berber tribes in Kabylia, the well known flyssa has such attention to apotropaic devices in geometric style it is nearly a stereotype. In a review of the work by Jean Gabus ("Au Sahara II, 1958) it is noted that the author strives to show the manner in which each artisan may interpret the symbolism for his own ends. This work reflects eight field investigations of Mauretanians, Tuareg and Fulani from 1942-1958 by the Musee d'Ethnographie of Nuechatel. Perhaps the apotropaic explanation as a device to protect from the evil eye might be at the root of the enigmatic marking? What say you Stephen? All best regards, Jim

2nd November 2010, 04:09 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	RIP

3rd November 2010, 12:36 AM	#3
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...well, going back to the multiple-marked sword from Anthony North's collection for example, where the wolf, the cross and orb, the lion, the pious text and the enigmatic "comet" coexist, I think we could break down Sudanese/Tuareg marks into types: some which are intended to show the quality of the blade, some which are pre-Islamic talismans, some - like koranic scripts - explicitly Islamic. And a single mark might move to and fro between categories. So we get to the point where, for example, a virtually unintelligable Thuluth phrase gets repeated around a blade like a mantra - text becomes talisman.

3rd November 2010, 01:07 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Thanks, its good to hear your perspective Stephen. That does seem like a viable solution.

3rd November 2010, 10:53 PM	#5
Rumpel Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 63	Ref trans-Sahelian stylistic transmission generally, the Pitt Rivers is reassuringly vague: "The flaring leaf-shaped lower portion of the scabbard is said to represent the head of a crocodile and can also seen on the scabbard of the straight kaskara sword of the Eastern Sudan, on the opposite side of the continent’s Sudanic belt. Some scholars think the most plausible explanation for the unusual scabbard form appearing in two places over 3000 miles apart is that it was carried westward across the Sudan by successive waves of Islamic warriors over the last one thousand years." So, like, yeah. OK. http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ica/1929.12.3/ I guess the same may or may not go for other stylistic aspects. Perhaps.