13th century sword - Swiss made?

[Cesare]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Cesare,

Can you tell if the inlays are made from twisted strips, if you look closely can you see diagonal lines in the inlay?

best,

Cesare,

Si può sapere se gli intarsi sono realizzati da nastri intrecciati, se si guarda attentamente si può vedere linee diagonali nel intarsio?

meglio,

E' difficile da dire. Il restauro potrebbe aver alterato la superficie dell'agemina. Ecco una foto fatta col microscopio digitale a circa 100 ingrandimenti.

it's hard to say. The restoration may have altered the surface of the inlay. Here is a photo taken with a digital microscope at about 100 magnifications.

[cornelistromp]

Hi,

it is difficult to see, but looks like the flat wide ring is made out of a (twisted) strip, this is an early inlay technique the twisted stripes were hammered in the slots when the blade was stil hot however under melting point of 960C.
in the case of silver.(Viking swords do have the same technique of inlays with iron strips.)

A nice detail is that the point is broken off and not rotten away! also the dark black goethite patina points at a conservation in water.
I think this is a water find.?!?
The "handwriting" of the S can be found on same type XI swords dating all around 1100.The sword is much older then the fortress and difficult to link to any battle.

regards fom holland

Ciao,

è difficile da vedere, ma sembra che l'anello ampio appartamento è composto da una (twisted) striscia, si tratta di una tecnica dell'intarsio presto le strisce erano contorti martellate nelle fessure, quando la lama era stil caldo però sotto il punto di fusione di 960C.
nel caso di argento. (spade Viking hanno la stessa tecnica di intarsi con le strisce di ferro.)

Un dettaglio interessante è che il punto è rotto e non marcio via! anche al buio nero patina punti goethite a una conservazione in acqua.
Penso che questo è un acqua a trovare.?!?
La "scrittura" della S si possono trovare sul spade stesso tipo XI datazione intorno spada 1100.The è molto più vecchio allora la fortezza e difficile da collegare a qualsiasi battaglia.

per quanto riguarda holland fom

[Cesare]

[QUOTE=cornelistromp]Hi,

it is difficult to see, but looks like the flat wide ring is made out of a (twisted) strip, this is an early inlay technique the twisted stripes were hammered in the slots when the blade was stil hot however under melting point of 960C.
in the case of silver.(Viking swords do have the same technique of inlays with iron strips.)

A nice detail is that the point is broken off and not rotten away! also the dark black goethite patina points at a conservation in water.
I think this is a water find.?!?
The "handwriting" of the S can be found on same type XI swords dating all around 1100.The sword is much older then the fortress and difficult to link to any battle.

regards fom holland

Thanks for the help
As soon as I return to the museum I will do more pictures with digital microscope.
I hope to be more detailed.
I agree with you and other friends of the forum on the dating of the sword.
Probably (in my opinion) is a "weapon of family", handed down from father to son. and ended badly in the battles of the 13th century, near the fortess.

Regards
Cesare

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much Cornelis! Absolutely outstanding and detailed description, and for clarifying these. My knowledge on this field is admittedly limited, and I feel lucky to have gotten that close in the hours of research before I wrote my post!!
The main thing here is learning, and its great to have this distinctly pertinant information. Very good points on the classification transcending the categories as with transition and varying makers preferences or styles, we can only broadly presume the closest application in many cases.

Regarding the marks, it is true that there is probably a great deal of unreliability in all of the resources on these as the groupings are of course compendiums taken from attributed examples presumed from certain dates and places. While many have more documented support than others, many are simply assumed, like the cross assumed a makers mark.

The information on the S is excellent, and great information on the use of silver inlay!!!

Cesare, thank you for these great entries, and please keep them coming
It really is a wonderful way to learn, from these wonderful pieces of history found in situ there in Italy.

All the best,
Jim

[cornelistromp]

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall]Thank you so much Cornelis! Absolutely outstanding and detailed description, and for clarifying these. My knowledge on this field is admittedly limited, and I feel lucky to have gotten that close in the hours of research before I wrote my post!!

Hi Jim,
this is a yoke, there is nobody I know in the field (and that are a lot of people) with your wide orientated amount of knowledge of antique arms.
Concerning early swords ,as you know, there is only 1 theory/work of classification that makes us understand the shape of a sword in a period and the reason for that shape.for a quick refresh-course in a day; there is a splendid book from oakeshott "sword in hand" (absolutely his best work) a series of articles originally published in Gun report magazine.

kind regards from Holland

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you for such kind words Cornelis! and thank you for the heads up on the Oakeshott articles. I dont have my other books by him on hand, but when on this subject material by him is by far the best for quick study to get up to speed. He has an easy to read, interpretive style which makes it often seem as if he is just talking to you in a conversation.

All the very best,
Jim

[Matchlock]

My expert friend Ottmar assigns this knightly sword to ca. 1250, the blade probably being broken during battle. It is of Italian type, the marks cannot be any better identified as has been expertly done here.

Best,
Michael