Ivory Hilt Trumbash Knife

Freddy · 30th October 2010, 08:53 AM

Nice piece, Lew.

Luc, could it be that the ones with a wooden handle are older models ? For example, like these ones :

Luc LEFEBVRE · 30th October 2010, 09:50 AM

"Luc, could it be that the ones with a wooden handle are older models ?"

Not systematically, but your knives are from the beginning ot XXth.
This one with ivory handle is 1900 or before.

Billman · 9th November 2010, 05:39 PM

These knives are usually regarded as ceremonial or currency, despite their close kinship with working sickles or billhooks. Most appear to be made mid 19th to mid 20th century, and many hundreds, probably thousands, have been made.

Later 20th century ones, made for the tourists, are made from sheet steel, approx 16SWG (1/16" or 1.6mm approx) thick. However earlier ones are forged and show the most skilled craftsmanship....

What I find intriuging is that the tribe at its height consisted of only 40,000 people, having moved from the Sudan in the middle of the 18th century (ref: http://www.zyama.com/mangbetu/index.htm), living in some 5 main villages (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangbetu_people) - say 50% were children and 50% of the adults females, and only say 10% of men of a status worthy of such a ceremonial item - maybe a requirement for 1000 knives - yet it is probable many more knives were produced than needed by the tribes for ceremonial use....

Were they thus ever used as tools??? Have only the 'new' or relatively unused ones survived as collectors' items??? If a symbol of wealth, or currency, would the tribes have parted with them so easily - or did their smiths make a surplus for trade with the belgian colonists????

However, the french Wikipedia site states the Mangbetu were part of a larger ethnic group, totalling over 1.3 million (ref: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangbetu_(peuple)) - so this may explain the apparent surplus of these wonderful knives... Maybe someone on the forum who has greater knowledge than me can answer my query???

Lew · 9th November 2010, 09:16 PM

I think the later fancy ones like mine were sold to wealthy farmers at least that is what I was told.

30th October 2010, 09:50 AM	#2
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	"Luc, could it be that the ones with a wooden handle are older models ?" Not systematically, but your knives are from the beginning ot XXth. This one with ivory handle is 1900 or before. Attached Images

30th October 2010, 08:53 AM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Nice piece, Lew. Luc, could it be that the ones with a wooden handle are older models ? For example, like these ones :

9th November 2010, 05:39 PM	#3
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	These knives are usually regarded as ceremonial or currency, despite their close kinship with working sickles or billhooks. Most appear to be made mid 19th to mid 20th century, and many hundreds, probably thousands, have been made. Later 20th century ones, made for the tourists, are made from sheet steel, approx 16SWG (1/16" or 1.6mm approx) thick. However earlier ones are forged and show the most skilled craftsmanship.... What I find intriuging is that the tribe at its height consisted of only 40,000 people, having moved from the Sudan in the middle of the 18th century (ref: http://www.zyama.com/mangbetu/index.htm), living in some 5 main villages (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangbetu_people) - say 50% were children and 50% of the adults females, and only say 10% of men of a status worthy of such a ceremonial item - maybe a requirement for 1000 knives - yet it is probable many more knives were produced than needed by the tribes for ceremonial use.... Were they thus ever used as tools??? Have only the 'new' or relatively unused ones survived as collectors' items??? If a symbol of wealth, or currency, would the tribes have parted with them so easily - or did their smiths make a surplus for trade with the belgian colonists???? However, the french Wikipedia site states the Mangbetu were part of a larger ethnic group, totalling over 1.3 million (ref: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangbetu_(peuple)) - so this may explain the apparent surplus of these wonderful knives... Maybe someone on the forum who has greater knowledge than me can answer my query???

9th November 2010, 09:16 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I think the later fancy ones like mine were sold to wealthy farmers at least that is what I was told.