Marks in European sword

fernando · 24th October 2010, 09:21 PM

Hi Jim,
... and you are a kind man, needless to say

.
I am much obliged for your willing contribution to such a lost case.
You are absolutely right in that there were millions of sabres with the "human" sun symbol and zillions with the three bar hilt.
To tell the truth, i knew this was a long shot; hoping that, by some kind of miracle, someone had a sword with the same initials or recalled having seen them out there.
Soon i will visit the owner and check the initials style. Probably they are the signature type and not a maker's mark.
Eventualy also a couple pictures to post here.
Thanks again
Fernando

Ian Knight · 25th October 2010, 05:58 PM

Hello Fernando/Jim,
The only 'WI' that I can find at the moment is 'William Ironside' of England 1708-1709.
I will keep looking.
Ian

fernando · 25th October 2010, 06:04 PM

That was very nice of you, Ian

.
Thanks a lot for your input.

Jim McDougall · 26th October 2010, 12:31 AM

Ian, I wanted to thank you as well. It'll be interesting when we get more information or photos. The only WI that I am aware of is West India (docks) which typically had more cutlass type weapons with the cast iron grips, and most of these had a stirrup grip, though there was one form with another quillon I believe.

All the best,
Jim

Ron Anderson · 26th October 2010, 03:18 AM

Well, of course, without photos, this is pure speculation. But could it be WIV? with the V missing or now faded and gone.

Making this William the fourth, just prior to Victoria. And making this sword an ordinary 1821 pattern cavalry sword.

Or is that just silly?

Jim McDougall · 26th October 2010, 05:25 AM

Not silly at all Ron! All we can do is speculate at this point as we are working virtually in the dark, but that is a well reasoned thought. One thing I had forgotten in the sun face, and while we know this is a well known talismanic blade motif, I just realized that this symbol was also used in the Philippines end of the 19th century by forces I believe in Luzon (not my field so not certain).

The main thing here is input, and its rewarding to see ideas and observations placed .

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 28th October 2010, 01:06 PM

Hi guys,
First of all, please accept my apologies for having driven you in the wrong direction. The initials, although a bit tricky to decipher, are definitely not WI. Perhaps a WH, in a monogram form. This punction is much closer from the hilt than i was told; could well be a maker's mark. Curiously it is situated on the left side

... is this a common procedure?
The 78 cms (31") blade could well be for Cavalry; the three fullers are the "groove" type, instead of the "depression" seen in British sabres ... if i know what i am talking about

.
The (faded) sun is much larger than i thought.
The grip could (could) be horn.
I hope you Gentlemen may redirect your analizis and offer further coments on this sword ... namely on the markings riddle.

.

28th October 2010, 01:06 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi guys, First of all, please accept my apologies for having driven you in the wrong direction. The initials, although a bit tricky to decipher, are definitely not WI. Perhaps a WH, in a monogram form. This punction is much closer from the hilt than i was told; could well be a maker's mark. Curiously it is situated on the left side ... is this a common procedure? The 78 cms (31") blade could well be for Cavalry; the three fullers are the "groove" type, instead of the "depression" seen in British sabres ... if i know what i am talking about . The (faded) sun is much larger than i thought. The grip could (could) be horn. I hope you Gentlemen may redirect your analizis and offer further coments on this sword ... namely on the markings riddle. . Attached Images

24th October 2010, 09:21 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Jim, ... and you are a kind man, needless to say . I am much obliged for your willing contribution to such a lost case. You are absolutely right in that there were millions of sabres with the "human" sun symbol and zillions with the three bar hilt. To tell the truth, i knew this was a long shot; hoping that, by some kind of miracle, someone had a sword with the same initials or recalled having seen them out there. Soon i will visit the owner and check the initials style. Probably they are the signature type and not a maker's mark. Eventualy also a couple pictures to post here. Thanks again Fernando

25th October 2010, 05:58 PM	#2
Ian Knight Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Sussex, England. Posts: 103	Hello Fernando/Jim, The only 'WI' that I can find at the moment is 'William Ironside' of England 1708-1709. I will keep looking. Ian

25th October 2010, 06:04 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	That was very nice of you, Ian . Thanks a lot for your input.

26th October 2010, 12:31 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,584	Ian, I wanted to thank you as well. It'll be interesting when we get more information or photos. The only WI that I am aware of is West India (docks) which typically had more cutlass type weapons with the cast iron grips, and most of these had a stirrup grip, though there was one form with another quillon I believe. All the best, Jim

26th October 2010, 03:18 AM	#5
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Well, of course, without photos, this is pure speculation. But could it be WIV? with the V missing or now faded and gone. Making this William the fourth, just prior to Victoria. And making this sword an ordinary 1821 pattern cavalry sword. Or is that just silly?

26th October 2010, 05:25 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,584	Not silly at all Ron! All we can do is speculate at this point as we are working virtually in the dark, but that is a well reasoned thought. One thing I had forgotten in the sun face, and while we know this is a well known talismanic blade motif, I just realized that this symbol was also used in the Philippines end of the 19th century by forces I believe in Luzon (not my field so not certain). The main thing here is input, and its rewarding to see ideas and observations placed . All the best, Jim