A Very Nice Dagger

[Robert]

Thank you for your thoughts on the dating Jose. Now, if only it were only possible to identify who it might have belonged to by the initials I would be ecstatic.

Robert

[Ferguson]

Robert, that's beautiful.
It would be great if we could find somewhere a comprehensive listing of Katipunan officers.

Steve

[Robert]

Thank you Steve. Yes it would be great to have a comprehensive listing of Katipunan officers but I'm not sure one exist. If it does I am sure that Jose, Migueldiaz, Dimasalang or possibly others on the forum would know about it.

Robert

[Dimasalang]

Very nice dagger! Definitely of the Katipunan to Phil-Am War era, but still difficult to place. Going by flags, to me looks like it is from either the Tejeros Convention or the 1st Republic. The sunface is a old design for sure, BUT one with "8" rays is more widely used from the Tejeros Convention flag and the 1st Republic Flag. Aguinaldo and his Magdalo Katipunan group of the Revolution are more associated to the 8 sun ray flag(no face)...the rival Magdiwang group had 16 rays(no face). The face did not appear on any flag until the Tejeros Convention(March 22, 1897). The kicker is there exist a Katipunan medallion that belonged to Bonifacio, and it also has a sunface with 8 rays....but these early sunface symbols(on flags, stamps, blades, medals, etc...) are extremely rare of the earlier Bonifacio Katipunan days(1892-1896).

But for this dagger I would lean more towards the Tejeros Convention and 1st Republic...simply because these nicer custom made daggers were more common of that time frame, and not so much from the earlier Katipunan days.

I actually looked at my own list of officers I made. Only two names stand out of officers.
Francisco Gamboa
Faustino Guillermo

Gamboa was a renegade 1st Republic soldier of Albay who lasted out in the field a few years after the Phil-Am War...in 1905 he was gun down by the PC. Guillermo is actually well known by historians who study the early era. Guillermo was an original Katipunan member who ran with Bonifacio...and later joined the 1st Republic as a Captain. And later after the Phil-Am War, he ran as a labeled outlaw/bandit leader under Gen San Miguel. US Military report Guillermo as second or third in command with his own force of 300-500 men. He was captured a few months after San Miguels death in 1903. Guillermo was tried and hanged in 1904. He is considered an unsung hero.

[Robert]

Dimasalang, Thank you very much for your help with trying to get an accurate dating on this dagger and for the information on dating the sunface design. What would be your thoughts on the blade design? Do you think it possible that it was made for someone who was originally from the Visayan region or something else entirely? Thanks again.

Robert

[migueldiaz]

Robert, nice dagger, congrats! I've really got nothing to add, especially after Dimasalang's usual in-depth comments

[baatar108]

is the hilt horn?

[Dimasalang]

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Dimasalang, Thank you very much for your help with trying to get an accurate dating on this dagger and for the information on dating the sunface design. What would be your thoughts on the blade design? Do you think it possible that it was made for someone who was originally from the Visayan region or something else entirely? Thanks again.

Robert

These are still difficult to place. Your dagger looks to follow suit with all the ones that come from Luzon. But I remember the Leandro Fullon dagger that was posted here also, which looks similar.(what ever happened to those photos?) And Fullon was a native of Antique(Visayas). Aguinaldo appointed him one of the commanding generals for Visayas. This is my own guess, but I believe Aguinaldo had several daggers made(along with their uniforms) for his high ranking officers and generals and sent these daggers out to them even if they were far from Luzon...they all seem to be somewhat similar to one another, particularly the sheath. I have yet to see other daggers similar in style that came from the Visayas region(prior to or after the Phil-Am War). Lorenz and Nacho would more likely know. If there are, please let me know too.

Off topic:
Interesting, I just found out Leaodro Fullon was born in March 1877, which places him as one of the youngest Filipino generals that I did not know about...there have always been big debates of who was the youngest, Gregorio Del Pilar or Manuel Tinio...Fullon was never brought in to the picture. Tinio still edges Fullon out as the youngest by 2 months. Learn something new everyday!

[David]

Originally Posted by Dimasalang

But I remember the Leandro Fullon dagger that was posted here also, which looks similar.
Off topic:
Interesting, I just found out Leaodro Fullon was born in March 1877, which places him as one of the youngest Filipino generals that I did not know about...there have always been big debates of who was the youngest, Gregorio Del Pilar or Manuel Tinio...Fullon was never brought in to the picture. Tinio still edges Fullon out as the youngest by 2 months. Learn something new everyday!

Those images were never posted directly to the forum. The link in now gone. This is why we always encourage direct uploads to this site of all your photographic examples.
Bill, perhaps you can be convinced to upload these to this thread again for reference. It certainly is a beautiful and historic dagger which would be helpful for further reference.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Dimasalang

The sunface is a old design for sure, BUT one with "8" rays is more widely used from the Tejeros Convention flag and the 1st Republic Flag. Aguinaldo and his Magdalo Katipunan group of the Revolution are more associated to the 8 sun ray flag(no face)...the rival Magdiwang group had 16 rays(no face). The face did not appear on any flag until the Tejeros Convention(March 22, 1897). The kicker is there exist a Katipunan medallion that belonged to Bonifacio, and it also has a sunface with 8 rays....but these early sunface symbols(on flags, stamps, blades, medals, etc...) are extremely rare of the earlier Bonifacio Katipunan days(1892-1896).

But for this dagger I would lean more towards the Tejeros Convention and 1st Republic...simply because these nicer custom made daggers were more common of that time frame, and not so much from the earlier Katipunan days.

I agree and below is a facsimile of the sun face flag adopted at that convention. It existed less than a year in 1897.