Moro Spear

[Gavin Nugent]

The spear arrived today and it is a beautiful piece in the hand and can certainly be applied in the martial manner of Chinese spears even if the head maybe considered a little heavy.
The twist core section is hollow ground/forged and there is a very subtle medial ridge within this section so can it be considered a Budiak???

Images and further detail in a few weeks.

Nice spears Bill.


Gav

[Battara]

Not quite Gav. It needs the deep chiseling and the right profile to be a budiak.

[Gavin Nugent]

Here are some of the finer details of the twistcore head. I found a little time this morning to give it the once over and a quick etch.

Can the script be read? Or is it just gobbledygook?

Gav

[Battara]

Very nice pattern!

Now all we need is someone who can either read Arabic and/or Jawi.........

[Lee]

That cleaned up beautifully! I think this is going to turn out to be a readable inscription.

[Maurice]

Congratulations Gav,

how beautifull the pattern is!

Just back from holiday and now etching blades allready! Good to be back home...

Maurice

[Gavin Nugent]

Battara, Lee, Maurice, thanks

Who within the community can I turn to for possible translations?

thanks

Gav

[Reichsritter]

Originally Posted by freebooter

The spear arrived today and it is a beautiful piece in the hand and can certainly be applied in the martial manner of Chinese spears even if the head maybe considered a little heavy.
The twist core section is hollow ground/forged and there is a very subtle medial ridge within this section so can it be considered a Budiak???

Images and further detail in a few weeks.

Nice spears Bill.


Gav

Hi Gav-

The local dialect (Tausug) for spear in Sulu is Budjak

[Spunjer]

Lol, i had a feeling you'd pop out here sooner or later, reichsritter... how are ya?

[Reichsritter]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

Lol, i had a feeling you'd pop out here sooner or later, reichsritter... how are ya?

Maayo man ko migo


I was drawn in some interesting topic in the European Armory for a while (ato ko didto hehe)....just noticed this nice Budjak with interesting Jawi inscription. Will try to look at these people in the Tarsila

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Reichsritter

Hi Gav-

The local dialect (Tausug) for spear in Sulu is Budjak

Hi Reichsritter,

Thank you for further insight and I am glad you are well.

Seeking further clarity on the subject of filipino spears;
Budjak = Budiak = spear and there is no naming difference between a chiseled example such as Lee's or Maurice's found in the links at the start and this one presented?
I hope you weaken enough to share anything else you can about the Budjak and the inscription.

regards

Gavin

[Gavin Nugent]

Here is a notion, fanciful too..let me have my dreams for a moment

With the translation that has been offered, could the word Jamil actually be Amil as in Datu Amil from the Sulu regions noted in Fultons work?
Finding such note worthy script on a spear or any Moro weapon for that matter must have a great importance and Amil was of the new school of thought were others were considered old school, perhaps a change that was note worthy enough to show on a spear and the spear being the king of weapons....let the dream stay for a minute before you all come firing in...

Gav

[BigG]

Originally Posted by freebooter

...could the word Jamil actually be Amil ...

Gav

not likely... the Jawi letter that came after the Jawi spelling of Datu' in the first line is the letter JHIM that creates the equivalent of the romanise consonant sound made by the letter "J"... as in "Jug, Jiggle, Joe". For the word to be Amil... the first Jawi letter has to be a different and distinctively written one. That is the Jawi letter of "ALIF"... That letter is not present there...

[Battara]

I would also propose that this piece is definitely pre-WWII, even perhaps pre-1900.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks BigG, Battara,

Here is the ole warrior restored.

Both sides of the blade now cleaned, collar and butt cap also cleaned and the wood oiled.... came up a quite nice

The collar looks to be Suassa with the brass/gold/copper tones The Butt fitting retains a green patina after a very good clean.

Seeing how well it came up, given the time, I might just get in to that Yanyuedao.

Gav

[Reichsritter]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Reichsritter,

Thank you for further insight and I am glad you are well.

Seeking further clarity on the subject of filipino spears;
Budjak = Budiak = spear and there is no naming difference between a chiseled example such as Lee's or Maurice's found in the links at the start and this one presented?
I hope you weaken enough to share anything else you can about the Budjak and the inscription.

regards

Gavin

Hi Gav-

No distinction, all spear for a Tausug is called Budjak. What I am intrigue here if who is Datu Jamil and Hashim in Sulu Genealogy. Im crossing my fingers that I can pinpoint who they are and what generation they lived.

By the way, it appears to me that Datu Hashim is an heir of Datu Jamil. The title was passed and maybe perhaps a responsiblity.

"Jamil" (meaning handsome) I think was more common name rather that Amil

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Reichsritter

Hi Gav-

No distinction, all spear for a Tausug is called Budjak. What I am intrigue here if who is Datu Jamil and Hashim in Sulu Genealogy. Im crossing my fingers that I can pinpoint who they are and what generation they lived.

By the way, it appears to me that Datu Hashim is an heir of Datu Jamil. The title was passed and maybe perhaps a responsiblity.

"Jamil" (meaning handsome) I think was more common name rather that Amil

Hi Reichritter,

You obviously have very good resources. I would hazard a guess that you start with the WWII era and work back as this was from the estate of a Naval Gunnery SGT who was in the area in WWII...I hope that helps.

Gav

[Reichsritter]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Reichritter,

You obviously have very good resources. I would hazard a guess that you start with the WWII era and work back as this was from the estate of a Naval Gunnery SGT who was in the area in WWII...I hope that helps.

Gav

Hi Gav-

It could be before WWII, but I'm looking far earlier. Things like these (including Kalis & Barung ) are heirlooms passed from generations together with the titles usually inherited by the eldest son. Remember, they practiced the traditional law of primogeniture.

[eric45]

very nice piece.
Eric