Templar Sword?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

... why specifically Templar and not simply a later Crusades knightly sword? ...

The style of the cross, maybe, Gene !
Weren't Templar crosses different than Christian ones?

[mrwizard]

The Teutonic Knights also used a very similar cross
at that time (black instead of red) AND they had with the "Deutschordensballei An der Etsch und im Gebirge" a province nearby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_der_Etsch

Best Regards

Thilo

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by mrwizard

The Teutonic Knights also used a very similar cross
at that time (black instead of red) AND they had with the "Deutschordensballei An der Etsch und im Gebirge" a province nearby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_der_Etsch

Best Regards

Thilo

Exactly, Thilo,

The Deutschordenskreuz usually does not show the widened and split ends though, and it is higher than wider.

Best,
Michael from Bavaria

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... The Deutschordenskreuz usually does not show the widened and split ends though, and it is higher than wider...

And the cross used by Christians would often have the crucifix shape; but these thing of crosses is not so linear, right?

[Matchlock]

Well, 'Nando, my brilliant and large scale expert Portuguese friend,

Honestly I can't tell for sure. I am not an expert in medieval cross shapes but in period firearms, which sadly usually do not have any definable cross symbols ...

Best,
Michl

[fernando]

C'mon Michl, i am far from being a cross expert ... in any scale
Like you, i can't wait for Cesare coments on that subject.
Meanwhile, this is how some modern author repeatedly designs the cross in the coats of arms of the more than twenty Templar Grand Masters.

.

[mrwizard]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Exactly, Thilo,

The Deutschordenskreuz usually does not show the widened and split ends though, and it is higher than wider.

Best,
Michael from Bavaria

Yes, but they are not that different and maybe
there were variations.
Below is a picture of Hermann von Salza, grandmaster of the order 1210-1239. Of course this picture is not contemporay but from the 17th century.
At the 13th century the "official" cross looked somewhat like the second picture taken from the codex manesse.

[Matchlock]

Thank you, Mrwizard,

For posting these.

Though owning a facsimile copy, I seemingly forgot about the illustrations in the world famous Manesse-Liederhandschrift.

Would you call this a Tatzen- or a Kruckenkreuz (or just a classic Romanic cross)?

Medieval Ages rule!

Best,
Michael

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
I think this sword falls into the sphere of the Type XI/XIa Oakeshott classification. The blade is probably a little short for XI but degradation can often be responsible for the foreshortening of older blades. The pommel to my mind is more akin to the Brasil nut form than the disc type. I would like to think it was a little earlier than 1300 but with the usual caveat that styles were used and made over a long period of time. The cross on the hilt to my mind doesn't necessarily suggest Templar or even Crusader although it may indeed have belonged to either or. Life in Europe at this time in history was inexorably entwined with the Church and its rhetoric so to put a 'Cross' on a sword to imbue one with that little bit extra 'protection' seems perfectly normal. Regardless of anything it is a really nice piece, the sin of 'envy' has reared its ugly head, and I look forward to the posts to come.
Regards,
Norman.

[Matchlock]

Completely agreed on my my side, Norman,

And thank you so much for the input,

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

I'm pretty much on your side, 'Nando,

The internet does not seem to be quite helpful, either. Illustrated there is a great variety of so-called Templars' crosses, some of which I would call Maltese and others just Medieval cosses pattées ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar

This seemingly is gaining suspension!

Best,
Michael