Storage advice needed

imas560 · 11th October 2010, 05:19 AM

Hello all,
school holidays are over so finally get a little bit of time to start posting again. I have become the proud owner of some lovely items that I won at auction which have turned up today.
My dilemma is that I know I will not be able to give them serious consideration for approx 2-3 months.
Some of the items need some TLC and I'm wanting to store them away so am hoping forum members might be able to give me some advice like: store in scabbard, out of scabbard, wrapped in plastic, spray with oil etc.
I have at my disposal desiccant sachets, oils like wd40, plastic sheeting and have a Bunnings/Hardware store close by.
First up a photo of the group.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Royston · 11th October 2010, 09:27 AM

Imas,

Nice little collection.
I would clean them and wax the blades.
If you have the space it is better to store or display them out of their scabbards - They look better and there is less chance of rusting due to moisture in the scabbards.
If in drawers or cupboards then using the silica gel may help especially if you live in a damp or humid climate.

The mandaus should really be displayed in my house

regards
Roy

Rich · 11th October 2010, 01:28 PM

Yes, store out of sheaths, use Rennaisance (sp?) wax on the metal blades and parts. Store in constant temp and humidity and they should be ok. I store my Japanese swords in a large gun safe at constant temp (+/- 5 degrees) and constant humidity of about 30 percent. Never had any trouble with rust. I don't wax my Japanese swords, but do my other knives and swords.

Rich S

imas560 · 11th October 2010, 11:20 PM

Thanks for the info.
Thought I would post some info about the items I bought. May take awhile though.
I have tried to reference from my copy of van Zonneveld for details.
The item referred to as the Dayak Mandau.
Dimensions:
Weight = 520gm approx.
Overall Length = 640mm.
Blade length (tip to hilt) = 495mm.
Point of balance = 370mm from tip.
Blade thickness along spine at 3 points.
Hilt = 8mm, midpoint blade = 6mm, 100mm from tip = 4mm.
Notes:
Resin (damar?) on hilt needs repair. Absence of coin (but looking at pics of other mandau have noticed the coin wasn't that usual, may be wrong). Absence of secondary knife (piso raout?), not sure if this had significant meaning, i.e.: absence of piso raout likely indication of utility use or particular tribe.

imas560 · 11th October 2010, 11:22 PM

Oh good point re gunsafe. Do you use a dehumidifier, desiccant or something similar in the safe?

imas560 · 11th October 2010, 11:26 PM

imas560 · 11th October 2010, 11:29 PM

The hilt.

imas560 · 11th October 2010, 11:38 PM

The blade. Definite concave/convex aspect to the blade. Don't know significance of the motif(?) on blade near hilt as I read that the mata kalong(?) was usually inscribed on the blade. The main plate in van Zonneveld does show a Mandau with metalwork with a piece near the hilt that looks similar.

imas560 · 11th October 2010, 11:44 PM

Scabbard. Something seems a little off to me re the scabbard. One side appears different to the other in regards to wood type/carving.

kahnjar1 · 12th October 2010, 05:19 AM

I suspect your question relates to storing and cleaning LATER when you have time, rather than immediate cleaning and storage??
I would just spray the blades with WD40/CRC556/Inox or the like. Leave OUT of scabbards and DON'T wrap in plastic which will seal in any moisture and cause sweating and more rust. If you have any old style FABRIC nappies lying around, they are ideal for wrapping items as they breathe and are soft.
I assume you already have weapons on display or in cabinets. Try to keep at a constant temp with humidity LOW. By all means use Silicagel as an added protection against damp if you are in a humid part of the country.
Regards Stuart

VANDOO · 12th October 2010, 05:56 AM

I NOTICE THE SCABBARD HAS LEATHER ON IT, MAKE SURE THE BLADE DOSEN'T GET STORED IN CONTACT WITH THE LEATHER. LEATHER ATTRACTS MOISTURE AND OFTEN HAD CHEMICALS USED IN TANNING THAT PROMOTE RUST. THE SCABBARD HAS TRACES OF DYED GOAT HAIR AS WELL AS VERY NICE FIBER KNOT WORK, THOSE AS WELL AS THE HANDLE CARVINGS MAY BE OF HELP IN IDENTIFING THE TRIBE OR REGION OF ORIGIN. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF IN DEPTH KNOWLEGE. OFTEN THE POUCH AND SMALL KNIFE ARE MISSING ON A GOOD WORKING DAYAK SWORD. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR A BETTER HARD WOOD TO BE USED ON THE SCABBARD AND A SOFTER LIGHTER ,LESS EXPENSIVE WOOD FOR THE BACK. THE HARDER WOOD WILL TAKE MORE DETAILED CARVING AND WEAR LESS THAN THE SOFTER VARIETY AND AS THE BACK IS NOT SHOWN IS LESS IMPORTANT SO ITS A GOOD PLACE TO CUT COST BY USING LESS EXPENSIVE WOODS.
CONGRADULATIONS A NICE LITTLE ASSORTMENT OF GOODIES

Rich · 12th October 2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imas560

Oh good point re gunsafe. Do you use a dehumidifier, desiccant or something similar in the safe?

No, nothing but clean, dry air :-) in the gun safe although we do run a dehumdifier in the summer for the house.

Rich S

imas560 · 18th October 2010, 03:35 AM

Thanks for the great info everyone. I have some Renaissance wax on it's way for when I can devote some time to these items.
I have some photos for the next mandau. It has taken awhile as I got sprung taking photos of the last one and the wife went ballistic, so I thought it best to keep quiet about the other 5 items I got. I couldn't explain why I needed these things, it's a sickness.
The item referred to in the auction as "Old Dyak Headhunters Mandau".
Dimensions:
Weight = 800gm approx.
Overall Length = 710mm.
Blade length (tip to hilt) = 580mm.
Point of balance = 400mm from tip.
Blade thickness along spine at 3 points.
Hilt = 7.5mm, midpoint blade = 6mm, 140mm from tip = 5mm.
Notes:
Steel cording on hilt needs repair.
Severe pitting on blade. Unidentified red substance on blade, more pronounced on one side. Concave/convex aspect less apparent. Crowit(?) on blade near hilt. Filework on spine of blade near tip.

imas560 · 18th October 2010, 03:41 AM

The hilt

imas560 · 18th October 2010, 03:45 AM

The blade

imas560 · 18th October 2010, 03:50 AM

The blade continued

The scabbard

imas560 · 18th October 2010, 03:53 AM

The scabbard continued

A. G. Maisey · 18th October 2010, 05:36 AM

Imas, the advice you have already been given is all good, solid advice, depending upon circumstances and the type of weapons involved, however this field of S.E.Asian edged weaponry is my special field and I am at variance with most of what has already been said, as your request for advice does apply to a particular type of weaponry.

If I had these and I intended to delay restoration for a few months I would:-

1)--- drench the blades with WD40 and allow those blades to dry off

2)--- all except the keris would then be sprayed with a good natural wax furniture polish, I favour " Maveer" by Kiwi

3)--- store out of scabbards and wrap in plastic to prevent contact with any cellulose surface such as cardboard or wood; wrapping in any type of cloth is a very bad idea as cloth can absorb moisture from the atmosphere, the same as wood and cardboard, and can cause rust; if you choose not to wrap in plastic, try to ensure that the blades are not in contact with any cellulose surface.

4)--- store the wrapped blades in a cardboard box and cover to protect from dust, store the scabbards either on top of the blades or in a separate box and cover to protect from dust, store the boxes in a dry place.

5)--- with the keris I would do nothing, I'd leave it in the scabbard and untouched; you will need to do a complete clean and stain anyway, and a few more months after years of neglect will make not the slightest difference.

6)--- Renaissance wax is a very good product, but it is not the only micro crystalline wax on the market, and in my experience, all waxes are best suited as preservatives for smooth polished blade surfaces, not for the rougher surfaces we find on S.E.Asian weaponry. I personally prefer Antiquax when I use a wax.

The important thing in the situation in which you find yourself is that you do no harm to the pieces. They have been neglected for a period of time already, a slight delay before restoration doesn't really matter. The recommendations above are for procedures that will just give you a breathing space before you can do the restoration.

Silica gel is a good idea. I store all my stock in cardboard boxes, and all my collection in either chests or chests of drawers, I have big bags --- like one kilo bags --- of silica gel in most of of my storage spaces.

imas560 · 19th October 2010, 02:13 AM

Thanks for the great advice.
It is now getting hotter with summer and I know from other metallic objects that I have in my garage that there may be a chance of rust.
I have a 3 level house with the bottom level being below ground level and is a lot cooler than the rest of the house. The middle level is the general living area and can get quite warm in summer. Then there is the ceiling space which can get quite balmy, not a quick heat but like a warm blanket. Any recommendations for which level of the house to store?.

11th October 2010, 05:19 AM	#1
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Storage advice needed Hello all, school holidays are over so finally get a little bit of time to start posting again. I have become the proud owner of some lovely items that I won at auction which have turned up today. My dilemma is that I know I will not be able to give them serious consideration for approx 2-3 months. Some of the items need some TLC and I'm wanting to store them away so am hoping forum members might be able to give me some advice like: store in scabbard, out of scabbard, wrapped in plastic, spray with oil etc. I have at my disposal desiccant sachets, oils like wd40, plastic sheeting and have a Bunnings/Hardware store close by. First up a photo of the group. Any help would be most appreciated.

11th October 2010, 01:28 PM	#3
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Yes, store out of sheaths, use Rennaisance (sp?) wax on the metal blades and parts. Store in constant temp and humidity and they should be ok. I store my Japanese swords in a large gun safe at constant temp (+/- 5 degrees) and constant humidity of about 30 percent. Never had any trouble with rust. I don't wax my Japanese swords, but do my other knives and swords. Rich S Last edited by Rich; 11th October 2010 at 06:18 PM.

11th October 2010, 11:26 PM	#6
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Dayak Mandau pic set 1

11th October 2010, 11:29 PM	#7
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Dayak Mandau pic set 2 The hilt.

11th October 2010, 11:38 PM	#8
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Dayak Mandau pic set 3 The blade. Definite concave/convex aspect to the blade. Don't know significance of the motif(?) on blade near hilt as I read that the mata kalong(?) was usually inscribed on the blade. The main plate in van Zonneveld does show a Mandau with metalwork with a piece near the hilt that looks similar.

11th October 2010, 09:27 AM	#2
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Imas, Nice little collection. I would clean them and wax the blades. If you have the space it is better to store or display them out of their scabbards - They look better and there is less chance of rusting due to moisture in the scabbards. If in drawers or cupboards then using the silica gel may help especially if you live in a damp or humid climate. The mandaus should really be displayed in my house regards Roy

11th October 2010, 11:20 PM	#4
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Thanks for the info. Thought I would post some info about the items I bought. May take awhile though. I have tried to reference from my copy of van Zonneveld for details. The item referred to as the Dayak Mandau. Dimensions: Weight = 520gm approx. Overall Length = 640mm. Blade length (tip to hilt) = 495mm. Point of balance = 370mm from tip. Blade thickness along spine at 3 points. Hilt = 8mm, midpoint blade = 6mm, 100mm from tip = 4mm. Notes: Resin (damar?) on hilt needs repair. Absence of coin (but looking at pics of other mandau have noticed the coin wasn't that usual, may be wrong). Absence of secondary knife (piso raout?), not sure if this had significant meaning, i.e.: absence of piso raout likely indication of utility use or particular tribe.

11th October 2010, 11:22 PM	#5
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Oh good point re gunsafe. Do you use a dehumidifier, desiccant or something similar in the safe?

11th October 2010, 11:44 PM	#9
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Dayak Mandau pic set 4 Scabbard. Something seems a little off to me re the scabbard. One side appears different to the other in regards to wood type/carving.

12th October 2010, 05:19 AM	#10
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	I suspect your question relates to storing and cleaning LATER when you have time, rather than immediate cleaning and storage?? I would just spray the blades with WD40/CRC556/Inox or the like. Leave OUT of scabbards and DON'T wrap in plastic which will seal in any moisture and cause sweating and more rust. If you have any old style FABRIC nappies lying around, they are ideal for wrapping items as they breathe and are soft. I assume you already have weapons on display or in cabinets. Try to keep at a constant temp with humidity LOW. By all means use Silicagel as an added protection against damp if you are in a humid part of the country. Regards Stuart

12th October 2010, 05:56 AM	#11
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I NOTICE THE SCABBARD HAS LEATHER ON IT, MAKE SURE THE BLADE DOSEN'T GET STORED IN CONTACT WITH THE LEATHER. LEATHER ATTRACTS MOISTURE AND OFTEN HAD CHEMICALS USED IN TANNING THAT PROMOTE RUST. THE SCABBARD HAS TRACES OF DYED GOAT HAIR AS WELL AS VERY NICE FIBER KNOT WORK, THOSE AS WELL AS THE HANDLE CARVINGS MAY BE OF HELP IN IDENTIFING THE TRIBE OR REGION OF ORIGIN. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF IN DEPTH KNOWLEGE. OFTEN THE POUCH AND SMALL KNIFE ARE MISSING ON A GOOD WORKING DAYAK SWORD. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR A BETTER HARD WOOD TO BE USED ON THE SCABBARD AND A SOFTER LIGHTER ,LESS EXPENSIVE WOOD FOR THE BACK. THE HARDER WOOD WILL TAKE MORE DETAILED CARVING AND WEAR LESS THAN THE SOFTER VARIETY AND AS THE BACK IS NOT SHOWN IS LESS IMPORTANT SO ITS A GOOD PLACE TO CUT COST BY USING LESS EXPENSIVE WOODS. CONGRADULATIONS A NICE LITTLE ASSORTMENT OF GOODIES

18th October 2010, 03:35 AM	#13
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Thanks for the great info everyone. I have some Renaissance wax on it's way for when I can devote some time to these items. I have some photos for the next mandau. It has taken awhile as I got sprung taking photos of the last one and the wife went ballistic, so I thought it best to keep quiet about the other 5 items I got. I couldn't explain why I needed these things, it's a sickness. The item referred to in the auction as "Old Dyak Headhunters Mandau". Dimensions: Weight = 800gm approx. Overall Length = 710mm. Blade length (tip to hilt) = 580mm. Point of balance = 400mm from tip. Blade thickness along spine at 3 points. Hilt = 7.5mm, midpoint blade = 6mm, 140mm from tip = 5mm. Notes: Steel cording on hilt needs repair. Severe pitting on blade. Unidentified red substance on blade, more pronounced on one side. Concave/convex aspect less apparent. Crowit(?) on blade near hilt. Filework on spine of blade near tip.

18th October 2010, 03:41 AM	#14
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Mandau Pic Set 1 The hilt

18th October 2010, 03:45 AM	#15
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Mandau Pic Set 2 The blade

18th October 2010, 03:50 AM	#16
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Mandau Pic Set 3 The blade continued The scabbard

18th October 2010, 03:53 AM	#17
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Mandau Pic Set 4 The scabbard continued

18th October 2010, 05:36 AM	#18
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Imas, the advice you have already been given is all good, solid advice, depending upon circumstances and the type of weapons involved, however this field of S.E.Asian edged weaponry is my special field and I am at variance with most of what has already been said, as your request for advice does apply to a particular type of weaponry. If I had these and I intended to delay restoration for a few months I would:- 1)--- drench the blades with WD40 and allow those blades to dry off 2)--- all except the keris would then be sprayed with a good natural wax furniture polish, I favour " Maveer" by Kiwi 3)--- store out of scabbards and wrap in plastic to prevent contact with any cellulose surface such as cardboard or wood; wrapping in any type of cloth is a very bad idea as cloth can absorb moisture from the atmosphere, the same as wood and cardboard, and can cause rust; if you choose not to wrap in plastic, try to ensure that the blades are not in contact with any cellulose surface. 4)--- store the wrapped blades in a cardboard box and cover to protect from dust, store the scabbards either on top of the blades or in a separate box and cover to protect from dust, store the boxes in a dry place. 5)--- with the keris I would do nothing, I'd leave it in the scabbard and untouched; you will need to do a complete clean and stain anyway, and a few more months after years of neglect will make not the slightest difference. 6)--- Renaissance wax is a very good product, but it is not the only micro crystalline wax on the market, and in my experience, all waxes are best suited as preservatives for smooth polished blade surfaces, not for the rougher surfaces we find on S.E.Asian weaponry. I personally prefer Antiquax when I use a wax. The important thing in the situation in which you find yourself is that you do no harm to the pieces. They have been neglected for a period of time already, a slight delay before restoration doesn't really matter. The recommendations above are for procedures that will just give you a breathing space before you can do the restoration. Silica gel is a good idea. I store all my stock in cardboard boxes, and all my collection in either chests or chests of drawers, I have big bags --- like one kilo bags --- of silica gel in most of of my storage spaces.

19th October 2010, 02:13 AM	#19
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Thanks for the great advice. It is now getting hotter with summer and I know from other metallic objects that I have in my garage that there may be a chance of rust. I have a 3 level house with the bottom level being below ground level and is a lot cooler than the rest of the house. The middle level is the general living area and can get quite warm in summer. Then there is the ceiling space which can get quite balmy, not a quick heat but like a warm blanket. Any recommendations for which level of the house to store?.