Schiavona with double head eagle engraved blade

Jim McDougall · 3rd October 2010, 04:45 PM

Dont be sad Valjhun! The best thing is that you shared it here and we got to learn from it.
Whenever you miss something in auction or sale, remember, these things always come back around. They are just visiting, and always hopefully with caring hosts

All the best,
Jim

Matchlock · 3rd October 2010, 07:58 PM

Hi there,

Valjuhn,

Here is some good news for you.

Though this is not exactly my field of expertise, as everbody will know by now, an expert friend on edged weapons told me that this piece is absolutely o.k. and preserved in original all contemporary condition. It is a rare schiavona of the latest Austrian type featuring the older Italian style pommel, ca. 1732-40. As I can judge myself, the engraving is characteristic of the style of those years.

Your type of piece is illustrated in the famos basic work Armi Bianche Italiane, which I do not own though.

So I really think there is no doubt about it being a fine piece.

Best,
Michael

Jim McDougall · 4th October 2010, 01:52 PM

Absolutely excellent Michael!!! and while you modestly insist your expertise does not include edged weapons, the truth is that your knowledge of arms and armour in these periods is so comprehensive, it would be impossible to consider that your working knowledge does not include them. While not keyed on specifics, ancillary material you have is the same as applies to all types of weaponry of the times.

Your assessment of the style of the marking engraving is gained from awareness of similar weapons markings of the period noted so there is an example of what I mean.

I had not checked in 'Armi Bianche' on this, though I do have that incredible volume buried here in the bookmobile (my wife cringed when she saw this being loaded

. It is truly a vital reference in studying edged weapons as these Italian weapons had such vast influence on so many forms. As can be seen here, the schiavona even entered the Austrian service, as apparantly it did in other instances outside its well known associations with Venice, and Dalmatian forces there.
Seeing this example has been great in expanding our knowledge and perspective on these beautiful swords.

All the best,
Jim

Matchlock · 4th October 2010, 02:02 PM

Thank you so much for consenting, Jim!

Best as always,
Michael

Dmitry · 4th October 2010, 03:10 PM

I forgot to add that the screw attachment of the guard to the pommel is an unusual feature for schiavonas. It would need to be looked at with close scrutiny.

Matchlock · 4th October 2010, 03:14 PM

Exactly, Dmitry,

It is not found on schiavonas earlier than the 18th century; please cf. the same screw attachment in contemporary both Austrian and Prussian Pallasche.

Best,
Michael

3rd October 2010, 07:58 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi there, Valjuhn, Here is some good news for you. Though this is not exactly my field of expertise, as everbody will know by now, an expert friend on edged weapons told me that this piece is absolutely o.k. and preserved in original all contemporary condition. It is a rare schiavona of the latest Austrian type featuring the older Italian style pommel, ca. 1732-40. As I can judge myself, the engraving is characteristic of the style of those years. Your type of piece is illustrated in the famos basic work Armi Bianche Italiane, which I do not own though. So I really think there is no doubt about it being a fine piece. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 3rd October 2010 at 08:43 PM.

3rd October 2010, 04:45 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,352	Dont be sad Valjhun! The best thing is that you shared it here and we got to learn from it. Whenever you miss something in auction or sale, remember, these things always come back around. They are just visiting, and always hopefully with caring hosts All the best, Jim

4th October 2010, 01:52 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,352	Absolutely excellent Michael!!! and while you modestly insist your expertise does not include edged weapons, the truth is that your knowledge of arms and armour in these periods is so comprehensive, it would be impossible to consider that your working knowledge does not include them. While not keyed on specifics, ancillary material you have is the same as applies to all types of weaponry of the times. Your assessment of the style of the marking engraving is gained from awareness of similar weapons markings of the period noted so there is an example of what I mean. I had not checked in 'Armi Bianche' on this, though I do have that incredible volume buried here in the bookmobile (my wife cringed when she saw this being loaded . It is truly a vital reference in studying edged weapons as these Italian weapons had such vast influence on so many forms. As can be seen here, the schiavona even entered the Austrian service, as apparantly it did in other instances outside its well known associations with Venice, and Dalmatian forces there. Seeing this example has been great in expanding our knowledge and perspective on these beautiful swords. All the best, Jim

4th October 2010, 02:02 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thank you so much for consenting, Jim! Best as always, Michael

4th October 2010, 03:10 PM	#5
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I forgot to add that the screw attachment of the guard to the pommel is an unusual feature for schiavonas. It would need to be looked at with close scrutiny.

4th October 2010, 03:14 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly, Dmitry, It is not found on schiavonas earlier than the 18th century; please cf. the same screw attachment in contemporary both Austrian and Prussian Pallasche. Best, Michael