Hunting Tigers with Katars: Fact or fiction?

[spiral]

Well said David!

Originally Posted by fearn

I'd point out (again) that there's an enormous difference between *killing* a tiger with a katar, and hunting a tiger *armed only* with a katar or a kukri.

I can believe the first one, for reasons cited by others. It's certainly possible to kill a tiger with a large blade, especially if the tiger is immobilized or seriously injured. The second one? That's in the crazy/brave category.

F

In both WW1 & WW2 & even in malaya, Gurkhas of whom the majority during war time, were young ,illiterate, uneducated,religios & fearlessly proud highlanders from the most out of the way back of beyond hamlets of the Himalayas, & who were so brave & fatalistc that the idea of throwing your rifle on the ground & running screaming at the enemy machine gunners waving thier kukri in the air screaming , "Ayo Gurkhaliiiiii " [ Basicaly "Here come the Gurkhaaaaasssss"} Before so many of them fell to the ground to never rise again. Seemed sensible. Of course those who succeded & survived proved such bravery could work.

This in part may have been fosterd by thier religios fatalism as well as thier natural mountain mans pride, as they truly believed you would only die when the Gods intended you to play that role in your wheel of life.

Even 6 years ago in rural Nepal, it was recounted to me that for many if a 3 year old was killed by a poiseness snake or tiger people would say the child had obviously done something very bad in a prievios life & it was karma.

People with that sort of belief make dangerous adversouries. Religion has sent many men to die & kill.

Today most serving Gurkhas are probably more somewhat more western in outlook & somewhat more akin to special forces. One a few years ago said to me, "We are not the illiterate men our fathers or grandfathers were, we wouldnt run at machine guns anymore, we would call for air support, then go in & clear up."

But of course there still a very proud group of people & when called upon to fight toe to toe with kukri in hand I am sure they would still do it with systematic effiency as did thier forefathers.

My point bieng what may seem foolhardy to us today didnt for men of yesteryear.

spiral

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by spiral

Well said David!




In both WW1 & WW2 & even in malaya, Gurkhas of whom the majority during war time, were young ,illiterate, uneducated,religios & fearlessly proud highlanders from the most out of the way back of beyond hamlets of the Himalayas, & who were so brave & fatalistc that the idea of throwing your rifle on the ground & running screaming at the enemy machine gunners waving thier kukri in the air screaming , "Ayo Gurkhaliiiiii " [ Basicaly "Here come the Gurkhaaaaasssss"} Before so many of them fell to the ground to never rise again. Seemed sensible. Of course those who succeded & survived proved such bravery could work.

This in part may have been fosterd by thier religios fatalism as well as thier natural mountain mans pride, as they truly believed you would only die when the Gods intended you to play that role in your wheel of life.

Even 6 years ago in rural Nepal, it was recounted to me that for many if a 3 year old was killed by a poiseness snake or tiger people would say the child had obviously done something very bad in a prievios life & it was karma.

People with that sort of belief make dangerous adversouries. Religion has sent many men to die & kill.

Today most serving Gurkhas are probably more somewhat more western in outlook & somewhat more akin to special forces. One a few years ago said to me, "We are not the illiterate men our fathers or grandfathers were, we wouldnt run at machine guns anymore, we would call for air support, then go in & clear up."

But of course there still a very proud group of people & when called upon to fight toe to toe with kukri in hand I am sure they would still do it with systematic effiency as did thier forefathers.

My point bieng what may seem foolhardy to us today didnt for men of yesteryear.

spiral

Hi Spiral,

I see what you mean, but do you think those attitudes extended to the sons of wealthy Indian families?
Or do you think the Katar stories are exagerated?
Because part of me wonders if these tales came from rich Brits on the grand tour regaling the sons of upper class Indians with tales of exaggerated bravery only to be told: 'thats interesting, did you know we hunt tigers with these'?

Hunting is a fairly common theme in designs on Indian metalwork, but I've never seen any depictions of people hunting tigers with Katars?


Best
Gene

[spiral]

In truth Gene, I dont know!

I do see your point, but many Mararajah types certanly did fight from the front in battle & many had dozens of sons. {as well as wives & concubines.} Who needed to stand out from the crowd.

I think Indian Royal politics was very machevelion at the time, with intrigue,poisening & murder,bieng common. It was tough to get to the top.

I wouldnt be surprised if some sons prooved thier fitness by such deeds. Common? I doubt it, but thats all just conjecture I have no proof.

Interesting discusian though!

spiral

[stephen wood]

interesting

[Emanuel]

I recall jamadhars with hunting scenes depicting tigers and lions. If such blades are representative of hunting weapons then perhaps these daggers were in the arsenal of hunters. Probably used much like hunting swords and daggers in Europe though to finish off wounded animals. Packs of dogs would probably be the main hunting weapon against tigers, bears, antelopes, whatever.

As an aside, I finally get Baloo's name in the Jungle Book, Bhalu=bear, simple.

Emanuel

[asomotif]

I finally get Baloo's name in the Jungle Book

A katar as a "bear necessity" in hunting

Interesting theory, but if hunting tigers with katars was something remotely seriously practiced, I am sure it would have been depicted somewhere.
Imagine a hurt and/or angry tiger and maybe 10 till 20 inches of wootz between you and him.
The tiger would probably rip your head of even if you would wound him deadly.
It is like a big cat. If they really start to rumble you need slow motion to follow them.

Ps, bumped into some odd pictures while googling for "big cat fight"

[David]

Originally Posted by stephen wood

interesting

Thanks Stephen. I LOVE the Bonzo Dog Band!

[wepnz]

I remembered someone had posted this picture of stone relief of a tiger being stabbed by katar. however the stabber seems to have other help (as suggested by others) and the tiger would seem to still be able to do major damage if the katar alone were used (seeing as how its gone right through the guys stuck with the tiger now). Also the katar seems to be the south indian hooded type, which are longer and have some guard protection.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...72&postcount=6

[laEspadaAncha]

Originally Posted by wepnz

I remembered someone had posted this picture of stone relief of a tiger being stabbed by katar. however the stabber seems to have other help (as suggested by others) and the tiger would seem to still be able to do major damage if the katar alone were used (seeing as how its gone right through the guys stuck with the tiger now). Also the katar seems to be the south indian hooded type, which are longer and have some guard protection.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...72&postcount=6

Great catch... In fact, this particular carving depicts two warriors, one armed with a katar in each hand, and both engaging the tiger simultaneously.

The temple carving dates to the 16th Century and is located in Srirangam in central Tamil Nadu.

Here's a repost of the pics for reference:

[Battara]

Originally Posted by stephen wood

interesting

So that's how you hunt tigers! I always wondered.......