Maces, Clubs & Others

kronckew · 24th August 2010, 08:03 PM

the trench mace of ww1:

rough iron casting with tapered oval socket to fit issue pick mattock handle.

six flanged mace

'nother knobkerrie, the zulu 'iwisa' wooden mace

laEspadaAncha · 24th August 2010, 09:10 PM

Please pardon the poor pictures, but here's my own example, an Indian (16th-17th C.?) flanged mace measuring +/- 31.5 inches / 80 cm in length. There are still traces of gold koftgari on a couple of the 22 flanges, and several of them are bent, presumably from use. Note the one that appears to have split (delaminated?) in the 3rd photo below... the diameter of the shaft is thin (relative to the length), but the rings provide for a good purchase. A cavalry mace, maybe?

lionzden · 24th August 2010, 11:23 PM

laEspadaAncha thats a sweet Mace you've got there!

Congratulations!

.. and keep me in mind if you ever consider selling :-)

Antique Arsenal · 25th August 2010, 02:27 AM

Hi guys,
Thanks for joining this discussion. Your input and examples are greatly appreciated. I agree with Lionzden the Indian flanged mace is amazing. So, congratulations to laEspadaAncha.
As was mentioned Vandoo many Horsetail standards were actually carried on a long stuff, others had an actual a socket so they can be put on a spear or pike. Finally where are examples which more resemble a mace? One of those examples I will show below.

Regarding the definitions of maces and clubs I have referred to a Big Dictionary of Weapons by B.G. Trubnikov. So, this is a rough translation:

Fighting Bat – It is a simplest type of a club. Consists of the handle and working part looking like knob or a nub. Both parts are solid.

Club – Simple cold weapon which look like a Fighting Bat but strengthened spikes or metal plates.

Mace – Simple percussion cold weapon. This weapon has heads of different shapes but most often it is circular or elliptical shape. Maces with stone heads appeared during the Neolithic period.

I hope this will help you to gain a better perspective on what is what.

OK. Now finally I can show you the items I have and I hope you guys can help me with them.

1st Item From My Personal Collection

This item I bought about 3-4 years ago from an old guy in upstate New York. I did do some research and consulted about it with one of the local antique shop sellers. What I found out is that this item is a Buncuk of 18th -19th Century. It belonged to an officer or chieftain who commanded either a 10, 100 or a 1000 people. I have been told that the origin of that item is Persian and that each face on the head of it represents something but nobody told me what. I hope you guys would shad some light on this issue.
The guy who I bought it from insisted that the handle is made out of human bone but I never believed him. It just seems to be highly unlikely. The handle is wrapped in fabric like strips with horse hear sticking out all around its perimeter. The head is hollow and made of metal likely to be brass or bronze. Please see the pictures below for more.

Antique Arsenal · 25th August 2010, 02:31 AM

2nd Item From My Personal Collection

The second item I just recently bought and I think it is a trenching club of WWI period. At first I thought that it has German origin because of its shape but now I am not sure. On the leather strip fixed to the handle there is a name “EL CID” which is a Spanish national hero who lived in 11th century. That could mean that there was a military formation that had this name or it is a name of the person who owned it. This confused me even more because neither Spain nor Portuguese participated in WWI. As far as I know they remained neutral. I hope you can help me out with this one.

Thanks,
Aleks

laEspadaAncha · 25th August 2010, 03:21 AM

Thank you both Aleks & Lionzden for the compliments on the mace - Lionzden, since you asked, should I decide to sell the mace, I will give you first dibs.

Aleks - I'm not familiar with the term "Buncuk," and I'll be looking forward to hearing what some of the Islamic arms & armor specialists on the forum have to say... interesting-looking piece. And while I don't consider myself to be a part of the welcome wagon, welcome nonetheless...

trajan · 25th August 2010, 03:38 AM

nice mace laEspadaAncha.

here are a few of mine with flanged heads and ringed shafts. Top one with wooden shaft has over 20 flanges as well.

trajan · 25th August 2010, 03:42 AM

2 of my favorite

spear tip flanged mace with twisted steel shaft and openwork decoration at forte.

Large spiral head Deccan mace---nearly identical to the Wallace collection example.

25th August 2010, 02:27 AM	#4
Antique Arsenal Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 35	More Maces, Clubs & Other Hi guys, Thanks for joining this discussion. Your input and examples are greatly appreciated. I agree with Lionzden the Indian flanged mace is amazing. So, congratulations to laEspadaAncha. As was mentioned Vandoo many Horsetail standards were actually carried on a long stuff, others had an actual a socket so they can be put on a spear or pike. Finally where are examples which more resemble a mace? One of those examples I will show below. Regarding the definitions of maces and clubs I have referred to a Big Dictionary of Weapons by B.G. Trubnikov. So, this is a rough translation: Fighting Bat – It is a simplest type of a club. Consists of the handle and working part looking like knob or a nub. Both parts are solid. Club – Simple cold weapon which look like a Fighting Bat but strengthened spikes or metal plates. Mace – Simple percussion cold weapon. This weapon has heads of different shapes but most often it is circular or elliptical shape. Maces with stone heads appeared during the Neolithic period. I hope this will help you to gain a better perspective on what is what. OK. Now finally I can show you the items I have and I hope you guys can help me with them. 1st Item From My Personal Collection This item I bought about 3-4 years ago from an old guy in upstate New York. I did do some research and consulted about it with one of the local antique shop sellers. What I found out is that this item is a Buncuk of 18th -19th Century. It belonged to an officer or chieftain who commanded either a 10, 100 or a 1000 people. I have been told that the origin of that item is Persian and that each face on the head of it represents something but nobody told me what. I hope you guys would shad some light on this issue. The guy who I bought it from insisted that the handle is made out of human bone but I never believed him. It just seems to be highly unlikely. The handle is wrapped in fabric like strips with horse hear sticking out all around its perimeter. The head is hollow and made of metal likely to be brass or bronze. Please see the pictures below for more. Attached Images

25th August 2010, 02:31 AM	#5
Antique Arsenal Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 35	2nd Item 2nd Item From My Personal Collection The second item I just recently bought and I think it is a trenching club of WWI period. At first I thought that it has German origin because of its shape but now I am not sure. On the leather strip fixed to the handle there is a name “EL CID” which is a Spanish national hero who lived in 11th century. That could mean that there was a military formation that had this name or it is a name of the person who owned it. This confused me even more because neither Spain nor Portuguese participated in WWI. As far as I know they remained neutral. I hope you can help me out with this one. Thanks, Aleks Attached Images

25th August 2010, 03:38 AM	#7
trajan Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 68	maces nice mace laEspadaAncha. here are a few of mine with flanged heads and ringed shafts. Top one with wooden shaft has over 20 flanges as well.

25th August 2010, 03:42 AM	#8
trajan Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 68	maces 2 of my favorite spear tip flanged mace with twisted steel shaft and openwork decoration at forte. Large spiral head Deccan mace---nearly identical to the Wallace collection example.

24th August 2010, 08:03 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	the trench mace of ww1: rough iron casting with tapered oval socket to fit issue pick mattock handle. six flanged mace 'nother knobkerrie, the zulu 'iwisa' wooden mace

24th August 2010, 09:10 PM	#2
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Please pardon the poor pictures, but here's my own example, an Indian (16th-17th C.?) flanged mace measuring +/- 31.5 inches / 80 cm in length. There are still traces of gold koftgari on a couple of the 22 flanges, and several of them are bent, presumably from use. Note the one that appears to have split (delaminated?) in the 3rd photo below... the diameter of the shaft is thin (relative to the length), but the rings provide for a good purchase. A cavalry mace, maybe?

24th August 2010, 11:23 PM	#3
lionzden Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 51	laEspadaAncha thats a sweet Mace you've got there! Congratulations! .. and keep me in mind if you ever consider selling :-)

25th August 2010, 03:21 AM	#6
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Thank you both Aleks & Lionzden for the compliments on the mace - Lionzden, since you asked, should I decide to sell the mace, I will give you first dibs. Aleks - I'm not familiar with the term "Buncuk," and I'll be looking forward to hearing what some of the Islamic arms & armor specialists on the forum have to say... interesting-looking piece. And while I don't consider myself to be a part of the welcome wagon, welcome nonetheless...