New Info on Panay Sandukos

ThePepperSkull · 2nd August 2010, 10:20 PM

A little update on my question: The round-pommelled hilts I speak of actually do have horns depicted on them, but are folded over the head to make the pommel round, if that makes any sense.

Here is a pic of a modern aklan taribung handle with straight horn made of wood

And here is a modern aklan taribung handle from the same maker with the rounded, 'folded horn' hilt made of wood. Note the horn, which begins at the monster's nose and extends past the back of its head as if 'slicked back' so to speak:

Another folded horn hilt, in Carabao horn:

From what I have gathered, this came into being when those who wielded these requested that the horn not protrude ad prominently in order for a slash or swing of the blade to be less inhibited. I am still unure of when this came to be or even if it is traditional. It could be a modern design adjustment in order to satisfy modern eskrimador needs.

Battara · 3rd August 2010, 03:04 AM

I think you made the point - modern escrimador needs.

I am glad you posted these - never seen this form before. I will wait for Migueldiaz and Nacho to respond.

migueldiaz · 3rd August 2010, 03:47 AM

I've also seen these new form of the taribong hilt, from the (Manila) seller's website. It also struck me as something new and recent.

But Nacho is more familiar with Panay swords, thus it's better that we wait for his comments. Thanks.

ThePepperSkull · 3rd August 2010, 11:39 PM

Thanks for the input, both of you.

The folded horn shape, if new, is very interesting to me. I can definitely see the benefits this form has as an eskrimador (and as a Silat man as well) myself. The ethnographic arms student in me also finds it partifularly interesting as this is a recent change of an old form. I don't see it as a bad thing, though. It sort of reminds me of the evolution of the Hulu Tajong. Where the flowers became more prominent and the limbs became less prominent over time.

This begs the question, though: Do the Panay Bukidnon consider this a 'real' Taribong? It does technically have a horn depicted on the hilt. I await Nacho's response with entusiasm.

Going back to the analogy of this being similar to the evolution of the Hulu Tajong, though. I wonder... if this blade-making tradition survives another hundred years (wishful thinking perhaps?), how will the horns look? Will the folded horn style pommel become more prominent? Only time will tell I suppose.

Dimasalang · 4th August 2010, 01:25 AM

Great!..now I need one! Thanks for posting those pics PepperSkull!
I don't know...I just find it funny. On one the horn is erect, and on the other the horn is..uhhh...limp. hehe

nacho · 4th August 2010, 03:17 PM

In our talks with the Panay Bukidnons they always referred to the long nose as diagnostic of their type of Taribung. It distinguishes their sword from the lowlander tenegres.

The Panay Bukidnon panday we interviewed ventured an opinion that the long nose was the original design of all swords in Panay. The lowlanders gradually modified it -- short nose; the hat is now just a round incised design, etc. The long nose was probably not practical for regular use. It also got broken.

To the Panay Panay Bukidnons the Taribung was also a "dress sword". The silver ones in particular were worn on special occassion, like fiestas and according to one informant, cockfighting day. It was also part of the marriage dowry.

For regular, day-to-day, farming work, they used a simple pommeled version that looks like the ordinary Panay binangon.

I agree with Battara that it is part of the process of evolution - some customer did not want a long nose on the pommel as it got in the way of his fighting style. If more people prefer this design, it could in the future be the norm.

The Panay Bukidnon tribe is small and many have already left their ancestral lands. They said the last Bukidnon panday who made hilts the old way passed away in the 1960s.

The art of Bukidnon cloth weaving and embroidery is currently being revived in Aklan. I recently received as gift from a friend, a modern tenegre with carabao horn pommel made in the old design. It was made in Sibalom Antique. If not for the carabao horn that had this "fresh" look, it could have fooled me. So, yes, they make them again today. I am sure you can order one based on your own specs.

On the sword shown in this thread, it is hard to say if it is modern. Who knows? It is possible someone asked a panday many many years ago to make one for him with a rounded top -- remember, the Iloilo Binangon has a rounded top!

ThePepperSkull · 6th August 2010, 09:50 AM

Thank you, Nacho. That was very enlightening! I wonder if the maker whose pommels I posted is of highlander of lowlander descent. The folded horn pommels DO look very close to Binangons I see from neighboring regions in IloIlo

Any chance of getting pics of this modern made Tenegre from Sibalom, Antique? This sounds very interesting!

ThePepperSkull · 13th August 2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

I've also seen these new form of the taribong hilt, from the (Manila) seller's website. It also struck me as something new and recent

Having discussed various things in terms of the Taribung with the aforementioned manila-based seller (of whom I will recommend visiting this forum, as he seems very interested in learning more about these blades), I have some new information about terminology regarding blade shapes. According to him the panday he gets his pieces done from have informed him of at least three basic blade forms, with subcategories for different blade geometries.

Once I compile the information given to me, I will post it here. fairly enlightening as I do not believe this has been discussed on here before.

migueldiaz · 16th February 2011, 05:10 AM

hello, thepepperskull. any update from your end? your comment is most interesting because nowadays, we tend to classify visayan blades via their hilt form.

it looks though that in the olden days, it's the blade shape that determines the name (which is more logical, like how moro swords are named for instance). in kaufmann's 1930s ilonggo-english dictionary, the swords' names still depend on the blade shape or function (and conspicuously absent is tenegre/tinigre):

sandúkò: A kind of long bolo with a curved point. (cf. ginúnting).

garanás: Knife, especially one used for cutting meshes, repairing nets, etc. (cf. urutúp, galanás, súndang, kotsílyo, lansítas).

ginúnting: A kind of war-knife, large bolo. (cf. siántong, sandúkò, binángon, íwà).

siántong: A kind of bolo, but straight and longer than the ordinary binángon and having the point slightly curved. (cf. sandúkò).

súndang: Knife, kitchen-knife, a small stiff knife, dagger, sword, table-knife. (cf. tulóslok—fork; irós—spoon; garanás, urutóp, lansítas, kotsílyo, binángon, íwa, etc.).

talibóng: A large, heavy bolo. (cf. sandúkò, siántong, binángon).

urutúp: (B) A knife, anything with a sharp edge for cutting, as a piece of sharp stone, bone, tin, wood, bamboo, etc. (cf. súndang, garanás; ótop).

túmbak: A harpoon, barbed spear or javelin, prong, fork. (cf.bángkaw—lance).

bángkaw: A lance, spear. Ang kílid sang Aton Ginóo hinandusán sang bángkaw ni Longíno. The side of Our Lord was pierced by the lance of Longinus.

kinabasî, kinabásì: Like—, in the form of—, a kabásì-fish; sharppointed. Bángkaw nga kinabasî. A lance with a straight, sharp point. (cf.kabásì, pinángdan).

pinángdan: Like a—, in the form of a—, screw-pine; twisted like a screw-pine. Bángkaw nga pinángdan. A lance with a long drawn and twisted point.

kinúgon: Made as pointed or as sharp as cogon-grass; the point of a spear,lance, arrow, etc. (cf. kógon).

lántip: The double-edged point of a lance, spear, or the like.

binángon: The Philippine long knife carried in a scabbard on the hip by workmen. The scabbard or case is called "tagúb" (cf. bólo, pinútì, siántong, sandúkò, ginúnting, talibóng, kális, súndang, uták).

lansétas: (Sp. lanceta) Lancet, fleam, a farrier's sharp knife used in phlebotomy; a pocket-knife.

pinútì: Knife, bolo, any cutting tool made of steel. (cf. putî).

related terms:

baláraw: Dagger, poniard, stiletto, knife. (cf. dága, punyál).

dága: (Sp. daga) Dagger, poniard, stiletto. (cf. íwà, súndang, pinútì).

kotsílyo: (Sp. cochillo) Knife, table-knife. (cf. súndang).

punyál: (Sp. puñal) Dagger, poniard, stiletto. (cf. íwà, dága, súndang, etc.).

íwà: Dagger; poniard, dirk, knife. (cf. dága, binángon, talibóng, sandúkò, ginúnting, kotsílyo, súndang, garanás, urutúp, lansétas).

uták: Knife, bolo. See binángon.

espáda: (Sp. espada) Sword, sabre, falchion, scimitar, brand, rapier, side-arm. (cf. binángon, talibúng, sandúkò, ginúnting, kális).

kális: (Sp. cris) The Malayan dagger, creese or cris, a sword as used by the Moros.

sáble: (Sp. sable) Sabre, sword. (cf. súndang, binángon, talibóng, etc.).

kampílan: A large, long kind of sword; hanger, cutlass.

lánsa: (Sp. lanza) Lance. (cf. bángkaw).

bidyíw: A spear, harpoon. (cf. bángkaw—lance).

sibát: A spear, a kind of barbed lance. Palayógi siá sang sibát. Throw the spear at him. Sibatá ang talunón. Throw a spear at the wild boar. Spear the wild boar.

sumbilíng: (H) Any missile in the nature of a javelin, spear, lance or the like.

orongán: The (wooden) shaft of a lance, spear, etc. (cf. unungán, ulungán).

kalásag: Shield, cover, protection, defense; escutcheon.

tamíng: Shield, buckler. (cf. kalásag; panamíng—to use a shield).

kalólot: To apply any sticky, viscous material. Ginakalólot sa ápal sang binángon ang tagók sang kamánsi. The juice of the bread-fruit is used for fastening the handle of a bolo.

tagúb: Sheath, scabbard, case; to sheathe, put into a scabbard, provide or make a scabbard. Itagúb ang ímo espáda. Sheathe your sword. Tágbi (Tagubí) ang ímo binángon. Provide a scabbard for your bolo.

panílo: (Sp. pañuelo) Cloth, cloth-band, collar, neckcloth; the strip of cloth or leather used for fastening the sheath of a bolo to the hip. (cf. balióg; pányo)

2nd August 2010, 10:20 PM	#1
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	A little update on my question: The round-pommelled hilts I speak of actually do have horns depicted on them, but are folded over the head to make the pommel round, if that makes any sense. Here is a pic of a modern aklan taribung handle with straight horn made of wood And here is a modern aklan taribung handle from the same maker with the rounded, 'folded horn' hilt made of wood. Note the horn, which begins at the monster's nose and extends past the back of its head as if 'slicked back' so to speak: Another folded horn hilt, in Carabao horn: From what I have gathered, this came into being when those who wielded these requested that the horn not protrude ad prominently in order for a slash or swing of the blade to be less inhibited. I am still unure of when this came to be or even if it is traditional. It could be a modern design adjustment in order to satisfy modern eskrimador needs.

3rd August 2010, 03:04 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I think you made the point - modern escrimador needs. I am glad you posted these - never seen this form before. I will wait for Migueldiaz and Nacho to respond.

3rd August 2010, 03:47 AM	#3
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	I've also seen these new form of the taribong hilt, from the (Manila) seller's website. It also struck me as something new and recent. But Nacho is more familiar with Panay swords, thus it's better that we wait for his comments. Thanks.

3rd August 2010, 11:39 PM	#4
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thanks for the input, both of you. The folded horn shape, if new, is very interesting to me. I can definitely see the benefits this form has as an eskrimador (and as a Silat man as well) myself. The ethnographic arms student in me also finds it partifularly interesting as this is a recent change of an old form. I don't see it as a bad thing, though. It sort of reminds me of the evolution of the Hulu Tajong. Where the flowers became more prominent and the limbs became less prominent over time. This begs the question, though: Do the Panay Bukidnon consider this a 'real' Taribong? It does technically have a horn depicted on the hilt. I await Nacho's response with entusiasm. Going back to the analogy of this being similar to the evolution of the Hulu Tajong, though. I wonder... if this blade-making tradition survives another hundred years (wishful thinking perhaps?), how will the horns look? Will the folded horn style pommel become more prominent? Only time will tell I suppose.

4th August 2010, 01:25 AM	#5
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Great!..now I need one! Thanks for posting those pics PepperSkull! I don't know...I just find it funny. On one the horn is erect, and on the other the horn is..uhhh...limp. hehe

4th August 2010, 03:17 PM	#6
nacho Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Makati Posts: 69	In our talks with the Panay Bukidnons they always referred to the long nose as diagnostic of their type of Taribung. It distinguishes their sword from the lowlander tenegres. The Panay Bukidnon panday we interviewed ventured an opinion that the long nose was the original design of all swords in Panay. The lowlanders gradually modified it -- short nose; the hat is now just a round incised design, etc. The long nose was probably not practical for regular use. It also got broken. To the Panay Panay Bukidnons the Taribung was also a "dress sword". The silver ones in particular were worn on special occassion, like fiestas and according to one informant, cockfighting day. It was also part of the marriage dowry. For regular, day-to-day, farming work, they used a simple pommeled version that looks like the ordinary Panay binangon. I agree with Battara that it is part of the process of evolution - some customer did not want a long nose on the pommel as it got in the way of his fighting style. If more people prefer this design, it could in the future be the norm. The Panay Bukidnon tribe is small and many have already left their ancestral lands. They said the last Bukidnon panday who made hilts the old way passed away in the 1960s. The art of Bukidnon cloth weaving and embroidery is currently being revived in Aklan. I recently received as gift from a friend, a modern tenegre with carabao horn pommel made in the old design. It was made in Sibalom Antique. If not for the carabao horn that had this "fresh" look, it could have fooled me. So, yes, they make them again today. I am sure you can order one based on your own specs. On the sword shown in this thread, it is hard to say if it is modern. Who knows? It is possible someone asked a panday many many years ago to make one for him with a rounded top -- remember, the Iloilo Binangon has a rounded top!

6th August 2010, 09:50 AM	#7
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thank you, Nacho. That was very enlightening! I wonder if the maker whose pommels I posted is of highlander of lowlander descent. The folded horn pommels DO look very close to Binangons I see from neighboring regions in IloIlo Any chance of getting pics of this modern made Tenegre from Sibalom, Antique? This sounds very interesting!

16th February 2011, 05:10 AM	#9
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	hello, thepepperskull. any update from your end? your comment is most interesting because nowadays, we tend to classify visayan blades via their hilt form. it looks though that in the olden days, it's the blade shape that determines the name (which is more logical, like how moro swords are named for instance). in kaufmann's 1930s ilonggo-english dictionary, the swords' names still depend on the blade shape or function (and conspicuously absent is tenegre/tinigre): sandúkò: A kind of long bolo with a curved point. (cf. ginúnting). garanás: Knife, especially one used for cutting meshes, repairing nets, etc. (cf. urutúp, galanás, súndang, kotsílyo, lansítas). ginúnting: A kind of war-knife, large bolo. (cf. siántong, sandúkò, binángon, íwà). siántong: A kind of bolo, but straight and longer than the ordinary binángon and having the point slightly curved. (cf. sandúkò). súndang: Knife, kitchen-knife, a small stiff knife, dagger, sword, table-knife. (cf. tulóslok—fork; irós—spoon; garanás, urutóp, lansítas, kotsílyo, binángon, íwa, etc.). talibóng: A large, heavy bolo. (cf. sandúkò, siántong, binángon). urutúp: (B) A knife, anything with a sharp edge for cutting, as a piece of sharp stone, bone, tin, wood, bamboo, etc. (cf. súndang, garanás; ótop). túmbak: A harpoon, barbed spear or javelin, prong, fork. (cf.bángkaw—lance). bángkaw: A lance, spear. Ang kílid sang Aton Ginóo hinandusán sang bángkaw ni Longíno. The side of Our Lord was pierced by the lance of Longinus. kinabasî, kinabásì: Like—, in the form of—, a kabásì-fish; sharppointed. Bángkaw nga kinabasî. A lance with a straight, sharp point. (cf.kabásì, pinángdan). pinángdan: Like a—, in the form of a—, screw-pine; twisted like a screw-pine. Bángkaw nga pinángdan. A lance with a long drawn and twisted point. kinúgon: Made as pointed or as sharp as cogon-grass; the point of a spear,lance, arrow, etc. (cf. kógon). lántip: The double-edged point of a lance, spear, or the like. binángon: The Philippine long knife carried in a scabbard on the hip by workmen. The scabbard or case is called "tagúb" (cf. bólo, pinútì, siántong, sandúkò, ginúnting, talibóng, kális, súndang, uták). lansétas: (Sp. lanceta) Lancet, fleam, a farrier's sharp knife used in phlebotomy; a pocket-knife. pinútì: Knife, bolo, any cutting tool made of steel. (cf. putî). related terms: baláraw: Dagger, poniard, stiletto, knife. (cf. dága, punyál). dága: (Sp. daga) Dagger, poniard, stiletto. (cf. íwà, súndang, pinútì). kotsílyo: (Sp. cochillo) Knife, table-knife. (cf. súndang). punyál: (Sp. puñal) Dagger, poniard, stiletto. (cf. íwà, dága, súndang, etc.). íwà: Dagger; poniard, dirk, knife. (cf. dága, binángon, talibóng, sandúkò, ginúnting, kotsílyo, súndang, garanás, urutúp, lansétas). uták: Knife, bolo. See binángon. espáda: (Sp. espada) Sword, sabre, falchion, scimitar, brand, rapier, side-arm. (cf. binángon, talibúng, sandúkò, ginúnting, kális). kális: (Sp. cris) The Malayan dagger, creese or cris, a sword as used by the Moros. sáble: (Sp. sable) Sabre, sword. (cf. súndang, binángon, talibóng, etc.). kampílan: A large, long kind of sword; hanger, cutlass. lánsa: (Sp. lanza) Lance. (cf. bángkaw). bidyíw: A spear, harpoon. (cf. bángkaw—lance). sibát: A spear, a kind of barbed lance. Palayógi siá sang sibát. Throw the spear at him. Sibatá ang talunón. Throw a spear at the wild boar. Spear the wild boar. sumbilíng: (H) Any missile in the nature of a javelin, spear, lance or the like. orongán: The (wooden) shaft of a lance, spear, etc. (cf. unungán, ulungán). kalásag: Shield, cover, protection, defense; escutcheon. tamíng: Shield, buckler. (cf. kalásag; panamíng—to use a shield). kalólot: To apply any sticky, viscous material. Ginakalólot sa ápal sang binángon ang tagók sang kamánsi. The juice of the bread-fruit is used for fastening the handle of a bolo. tagúb: Sheath, scabbard, case; to sheathe, put into a scabbard, provide or make a scabbard. Itagúb ang ímo espáda. Sheathe your sword. Tágbi (Tagubí) ang ímo binángon. Provide a scabbard for your bolo. panílo: (Sp. pañuelo) Cloth, cloth-band, collar, neckcloth; the strip of cloth or leather used for fastening the sheath of a bolo to the hip. (cf. balióg; pányo)