Intersting rattan quiver?? for Id and opinions

Andy Stevens · 30th July 2010, 12:56 PM

Hello to all. We have something of an on going argument that needs to be settled, the outcome of which determines who buys the next pizza! The item in queastion is the 'quiver' pictured below. Firstly, is it a quiver? secondly, where does it come from? We both have our own opinions but as neither of us can prove the other wrong we thought the forum may be able to decide once and for all. The object is very well made from a single piece of folded bamboo, the top being finely woven rattan.
Overall length:35cm

Best regards Andy and karina

Nathaniel · 30th July 2010, 02:55 PM

Can't say for sure...could be a number of places in SEA, but it reminds me of similar rattan baskets I've seen for knives in Thailand & Burma, but they are usually woven the entire length, but sometimes a large single piece such as this...yours is very nice condition.

Here is a Kachin sword I have that has a basket scabbard...http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5426

Henk · 30th July 2010, 05:34 PM

I think it is a dartquiver indeed. I think from Phillipine origin. I Found some pictures on google "bamboo dart quiver with woven".

Nathaniel · 1st August 2010, 07:39 AM

I'm still leaning to the SEA mainland....when I google "bamboo dart quiver with woven" The only thing that turned up was a Borneo dart quiver.

IF I added Filipino to the search I found:

Which is not quite as close to the what I've seen in Thailand:

Henk · 1st August 2010, 10:02 AM

Nathaniel, did you read the text belonging to these quivers? The author said this is Philipine.

Andy Stevens · 1st August 2010, 12:08 PM

Hello again folks, we've been doing a bit of researching ourselves and found some similar basket work coming from China's Dong people. The link below shows examples of various baskets, all of which show a very high degree of skill in production.The quiver shown is for a full size bow and not for blow pipe darts. We say ours is simillar in some respects, but still yearn for the definate identification of what is in its own right a beautiful piece of tribal art. As ever comments very welcome.

http://www.toranatribal.com/Baskets.html

VANDOO · 1st August 2010, 09:18 PM

MOST BUT NOT ALL BLOWGUN DART QUIVERS HAVE A COVER. I AM THINKING PERHAPS THIS IS A QUIVER FOR THE SHORT BOLTS FOR THE CROSSBOWS USED IN INDO CHINA. BASED ON ITS CONSTRUCTION, SIZE AND LACK OF A COVER THAT IS MY BEST GUESS.

Navigator · 2nd August 2010, 01:17 AM

I am almost positive that this quiver is not from the Philippines.
Nice piece.

Nathaniel · 2nd August 2010, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Nathaniel, did you read the text belonging to these quivers? The author said this is Philipine.

Yup, I did search the suggested terminology word for word...only found a woven quiver from Borneo....I then added Philippine and Google suggested "Filipino", a Filipino being a person from the Philippines....I added it to the search results showed the above black and white photo which I showed above

Which actually came off a vikingsword.com page:

Plates from:
Herbert W. Krieger's
The Collection of Primitive Weapons and Armor of the Philippine Islands
in the United States National Museum
Smithsonian Institution; United States National Museum, Bulletin 137 (1926)

http://www.vikingsword.com/rila/krieger.html

Nathaniel · 2nd August 2010, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Stevens

Hello again folks, we've been doing a bit of researching ourselves and found some similar basket work coming from China's Dong people. The link below shows examples of various baskets, all of which show a very high degree of skill in production.The quiver shown is for a full size bow and not for blow pipe darts. We say ours is simillar in some respects, but still yearn for the definate identification of what is in its own right a beautiful piece of tribal art. As ever comments very welcome.

http://www.toranatribal.com/Baskets.html

Interesting basketry of the Dong & Miao

This one listed as from Guizhou province in China, which is identical to the one I had in the picture of the knife sheath from Thailand.

I had a Thai friend look at the pictures of the quiver and they said it looked like it could be Thai or maybe Lao. I know I've seen examples in Thailand identical to the quiver you have Andy.

I think this just goes to show how wide range this could be...and that it is near impossible to specify the exact minority group...there are several ethnic minorities in the south east Asia...they have traded, adopted & adapted from each other...and migrated throughout history.

The basketry is SEA is all elaborate, the older examples of course tend to be the best as the newly made in the traditional style are rarely as fine of work.

A funny/ practical example I saw was a certain snack was traditionally put into an origami folded leaf container...well, one vendor I saw still used the leaf container...but rather than taking the extra time to make sure it was folded correctly to hold tight...it was instead just stapled together

Maybe some SEA basket expert could tell you...but from what I've seen it appears it's too generic

Just like today it was then...if it's a popular design it's copied.

Henk · 21st August 2010, 09:16 AM

I think Vandoo came with the best answer.

I found the picture of this one. Saying a quiver from Cambodja.

Freddy · 22nd August 2010, 06:18 PM

I have a piece in my collection which could fit into the discussion about the quivers or sheaths of this thread.

I don't know much about it. It came together with the 'chopper'. The sheath is made out of split rattan or bamboo with a leather covering at the top. The sword is straight, single-edged (and sharp) with a bamboo handle, reinforced with a woven band and a metal ring.

According to the person who sold this piece to me, it comes from the Yao people in Burma.

Length of sheath : 37 cm
width of sheath at the top : 10 cm

Total length of sword : 50 cm
Blade : 36 cm

Andrew · 23rd August 2010, 08:28 PM

I agree with Nathaniel. This is a Mainland SEA scabbard, not a quiver. A number of "hill tribes" utilize this type of basketry to cover and carry bladed implements.

asomotif · 30th August 2010, 01:13 AM

Quote:

A number of "hill tribes" utilize this type of basketry to cover and carry bladed implements.

Found the following pictures in "Basketry " ISBN 978-0-500-28670-8

Below pictures of :
1. a sheath of plaited split bamboo used by the Kamu of Laos.
2. left to right : Bamboo sheath from Myanmar / Kamu bamboo sheath / Akha rattan sheath from Northern Thailand.

Andy Stevens · 31st August 2010, 03:48 PM

Asomotif, you are a star! Thankyou so much for your research. The example in the lower picture is the closest yet to our little piece of basketry-all we need now is the knife!!

A mystery solved is a pizza on the plate! Once again thankyou.

PUFF · 3rd September 2010, 04:44 PM

Thailand, these day, the basket scabbards are mostly for knives.

But in the northern Thailand, the basket may come in different sizes for utilitarian purpose. Some are slightly bigger and folk people put severals items into his/her personal basket, ranging from slingshot, machete, cloth, rice, salt, spices, mushroom etc.

asomotif · 7th April 2011, 10:22 PM

Found one in the Netherlands.

Anyone who has a clue on the marking ?

30th July 2010, 12:56 PM	#1
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Intersting rattan quiver?? for Id and opinions Hello to all. We have something of an on going argument that needs to be settled, the outcome of which determines who buys the next pizza! The item in queastion is the 'quiver' pictured below. Firstly, is it a quiver? secondly, where does it come from? We both have our own opinions but as neither of us can prove the other wrong we thought the forum may be able to decide once and for all. The object is very well made from a single piece of folded bamboo, the top being finely woven rattan. Overall length:35cm Best regards Andy and karina Attached Images

1st August 2010, 09:18 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MOST BUT NOT ALL BLOWGUN DART QUIVERS HAVE A COVER. I AM THINKING PERHAPS THIS IS A QUIVER FOR THE SHORT BOLTS FOR THE CROSSBOWS USED IN INDO CHINA. BASED ON ITS CONSTRUCTION, SIZE AND LACK OF A COVER THAT IS MY BEST GUESS. Attached Images

21st August 2010, 09:16 AM	#11
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I think Vandoo came with the best answer. I found the picture of this one. Saying a quiver from Cambodja. Attached Images

7th April 2011, 10:22 PM	#17
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	found one Found one in the Netherlands. Anyone who has a clue on the marking ? Attached Images

30th July 2010, 02:55 PM	#2
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Can't say for sure...could be a number of places in SEA, but it reminds me of similar rattan baskets I've seen for knives in Thailand & Burma, but they are usually woven the entire length, but sometimes a large single piece such as this...yours is very nice condition. Here is a Kachin sword I have that has a basket scabbard...http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5426

30th July 2010, 05:34 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I think it is a dartquiver indeed. I think from Phillipine origin. I Found some pictures on google "bamboo dart quiver with woven".

1st August 2010, 07:39 AM	#4
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	I'm still leaning to the SEA mainland....when I google "bamboo dart quiver with woven" The only thing that turned up was a Borneo dart quiver. IF I added Filipino to the search I found: Which is not quite as close to the what I've seen in Thailand:

1st August 2010, 10:02 AM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Nathaniel, did you read the text belonging to these quivers? The author said this is Philipine.

1st August 2010, 12:08 PM	#6
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Hello again folks, we've been doing a bit of researching ourselves and found some similar basket work coming from China's Dong people. The link below shows examples of various baskets, all of which show a very high degree of skill in production.The quiver shown is for a full size bow and not for blow pipe darts. We say ours is simillar in some respects, but still yearn for the definate identification of what is in its own right a beautiful piece of tribal art. As ever comments very welcome. http://www.toranatribal.com/Baskets.html

2nd August 2010, 01:17 AM	#8
Navigator Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10	I am almost positive that this quiver is not from the Philippines. Nice piece.

22nd August 2010, 06:18 PM	#12
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I have a piece in my collection which could fit into the discussion about the quivers or sheaths of this thread. I don't know much about it. It came together with the 'chopper'. The sheath is made out of split rattan or bamboo with a leather covering at the top. The sword is straight, single-edged (and sharp) with a bamboo handle, reinforced with a woven band and a metal ring. According to the person who sold this piece to me, it comes from the Yao people in Burma. Length of sheath : 37 cm width of sheath at the top : 10 cm Total length of sword : 50 cm Blade : 36 cm

23rd August 2010, 08:28 PM	#13
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I agree with Nathaniel. This is a Mainland SEA scabbard, not a quiver. A number of "hill tribes" utilize this type of basketry to cover and carry bladed implements.

31st August 2010, 03:48 PM	#15
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Asomotif, you are a star! Thankyou so much for your research. The example in the lower picture is the closest yet to our little piece of basketry-all we need now is the knife!! A mystery solved is a pizza on the plate! Once again thankyou.

3rd September 2010, 04:44 PM	#16
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	Thailand, these day, the basket scabbards are mostly for knives. But in the northern Thailand, the basket may come in different sizes for utilitarian purpose. Some are slightly bigger and folk people put severals items into his/her personal basket, ranging from slingshot, machete, cloth, rice, salt, spices, mushroom etc.