Micronesian spears?

fearn · 28th July 2010, 06:27 PM

The double-weapon guess is reasonable. I don't know of any evidence, but the whole "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" statement probably applies.

As for your war canoes, you're right, to a point. However, those long, thin paddled boats were typically used for short-distance fighting, as in Tahiti and New Zealand as well as in the Solomons.

Other islands quite certainly did use double-hulled warships. The most famous is the Fijian ndrua. Additionally, the long-distance raids I described in the shark-toothed weapons thread had to have been carried out with voyaging canoes. Additionally, on the atolls, I don't think they had any purpose-built war canoes. If you wanted to attack a distant island, you voyaged to it.

Best,

F

VANDOO · 28th July 2010, 11:00 PM

I WOULD AGREE ANY LONG RANGE RAIDS WOULD MOST LIKELY INVOLVE LARGER VOYAGING TYPE WARCRAFT. THE LARGER CRAFT WOULD LIKELY BE MET BY THE LOCAL WAR CANOES AS THEY WERE MUCH FASTER AND MORE MANUVERABLE. THEY WERE NOT TOO GOOD FOR LONG RANGE RAIDS BUT WERE BETTER NEAR THE SHORES OF THE LOCAL ISLANDS. MOST LIKELY PROJECTILE WEAPONS WERE USED AT RANGE (SILNGS, ARROWS, SPEARS) AND CLOSER RANGE WEAPONS USED WHEN THEY CAME IN CONTACT.
FIRST PICTURE A SAMOAN LONG RANGE WAR CANOE
THEN TWO COLOR PICTURES FROM THE POLYNESIAN VOYAGING SOCIETY ONE OF THEIR 60 FOOT LONG VOYAGING CANOE.
THEN A DRAWING OF A OLD MARQUESAN WAR CANOE AND FINALLY A 1800 DRAWING OF NAVAL COMBAT IN TAHITI.

Tim Simmons · 29th July 2010, 10:47 AM

Found this picture of Micronesian double pointed spear/fighting stick.

fearn · 29th July 2010, 06:06 PM

Hi Tim,

I knew that plate was around here somewhere, but I couldn't find it in my collection.

Thanks!

F

Tim Simmons · 29th July 2010, 07:07 PM

The trouble is there is no idea of scale in the plate. At that time of etching the plate they were more interested in the finished pattern. I imagine with the central knuckle it is a one handed weapon?

Also adding this picture of Malinowski. Interesting he displays a strong power posture. It is no wonder he felt his work lacked something. Still not many decades earlier the Islanders would have be seen as godless savages, so there was some improvement.

Tim Simmons · 29th July 2010, 08:32 PM

I have this stick. I have always thought it to be African because of the bi-coloured wood. This is need not be the case. F nows about wood he is a botonist. I show it next to an Australian club and Massim region sword club. The sword club also displays bi-colouration. I suspect the double ended spike thing is a palmwood, I am not sure about the sword club. I have googled palmwood and it is said to appear in varried colours. I am now thinking this might be a more interesting piece?

fearn · 29th July 2010, 10:10 PM

Got me, Tim.

The grain will give the wood away faster than the color. Palm wood has parallel fibers in it, like bamboo, randomly dispersed in the wood matrix. It looks very different from dicot wood. Just looking at the coloring, I'd say that all three are from dicot woods.

As for the origin of the double-spike, I don't know either. I'm pretty comfortable saying it's not coconut, pandanus, or breadfruit wood. It might be from Casuarina equisetifolia (she-oak/ironwood), Terminalia wood, or something else (if you want to do your own research).

Most of the atoll woods seem to be lighter in color than those weapons, but then again, I don't know what they're making them out of in the Massim region either.

Best,

F

28th July 2010, 11:00 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD AGREE ANY LONG RANGE RAIDS WOULD MOST LIKELY INVOLVE LARGER VOYAGING TYPE WARCRAFT. THE LARGER CRAFT WOULD LIKELY BE MET BY THE LOCAL WAR CANOES AS THEY WERE MUCH FASTER AND MORE MANUVERABLE. THEY WERE NOT TOO GOOD FOR LONG RANGE RAIDS BUT WERE BETTER NEAR THE SHORES OF THE LOCAL ISLANDS. MOST LIKELY PROJECTILE WEAPONS WERE USED AT RANGE (SILNGS, ARROWS, SPEARS) AND CLOSER RANGE WEAPONS USED WHEN THEY CAME IN CONTACT. FIRST PICTURE A SAMOAN LONG RANGE WAR CANOE THEN TWO COLOR PICTURES FROM THE POLYNESIAN VOYAGING SOCIETY ONE OF THEIR 60 FOOT LONG VOYAGING CANOE. THEN A DRAWING OF A OLD MARQUESAN WAR CANOE AND FINALLY A 1800 DRAWING OF NAVAL COMBAT IN TAHITI. Attached Images

29th July 2010, 10:47 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,880	Found this picture of Micronesian double pointed spear/fighting stick. Attached Images

29th July 2010, 07:07 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,880	The trouble is there is no idea of scale in the plate. At that time of etching the plate they were more interested in the finished pattern. I imagine with the central knuckle it is a one handed weapon? Also adding this picture of Malinowski. Interesting he displays a strong power posture. It is no wonder he felt his work lacked something. Still not many decades earlier the Islanders would have be seen as godless savages, so there was some improvement. Attached Images

29th July 2010, 08:32 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,880	I have this stick. I have always thought it to be African because of the bi-coloured wood. This is need not be the case. F nows about wood he is a botonist. I show it next to an Australian club and Massim region sword club. The sword club also displays bi-colouration. I suspect the double ended spike thing is a palmwood, I am not sure about the sword club. I have googled palmwood and it is said to appear in varried colours. I am now thinking this might be a more interesting piece? Attached Images

28th July 2010, 06:27 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	The double-weapon guess is reasonable. I don't know of any evidence, but the whole "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" statement probably applies. As for your war canoes, you're right, to a point. However, those long, thin paddled boats were typically used for short-distance fighting, as in Tahiti and New Zealand as well as in the Solomons. Other islands quite certainly did use double-hulled warships. The most famous is the Fijian ndrua. Additionally, the long-distance raids I described in the shark-toothed weapons thread had to have been carried out with voyaging canoes. Additionally, on the atolls, I don't think they had any purpose-built war canoes. If you wanted to attack a distant island, you voyaged to it. Best, F

29th July 2010, 06:06 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, I knew that plate was around here somewhere, but I couldn't find it in my collection. Thanks! F

29th July 2010, 10:10 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Got me, Tim. The grain will give the wood away faster than the color. Palm wood has parallel fibers in it, like bamboo, randomly dispersed in the wood matrix. It looks very different from dicot wood. Just looking at the coloring, I'd say that all three are from dicot woods. As for the origin of the double-spike, I don't know either. I'm pretty comfortable saying it's not coconut, pandanus, or breadfruit wood. It might be from Casuarina equisetifolia (she-oak/ironwood), Terminalia wood, or something else (if you want to do your own research). Most of the atoll woods seem to be lighter in color than those weapons, but then again, I don't know what they're making them out of in the Massim region either. Best, F