Chinese sword breaker I hope it's real

KuKulzA28 · 16th July 2010, 06:24 AM

I'm pretty new to these... Could someone please tell me, what's the difference between the "sword-breakers" and the thin "stick-maces"? Thanks.

josh stout · 16th July 2010, 04:27 PM

I use the term “sword breaker” as a term for its function. Technically this is a jian, with a different inflection than “jian” the two edged sword. Jian have a square cross section. Other terms are “bian” or an “iron whip”, which seems to refer to round cross sectioned sword breakers, and “taiji” or iron ruler for rectangular ruler like weapons, often with Chinese inch marks.

I am worried because my Chinese friends say it is a fake. I am hoping they are wrong, but usually they are correct.

A South East Asian origin is an interesting hypothesis. I don’t see anything that is clearly not Chinese, but then again Chinese sword breakers are almost never that ornate. It may be why my friends are doubtful. Often Chinese influenced things from the SEA region will be more ornate than originals. I will see if there is any way to tell when I get it. I don’t think there are any inscriptions.

There was a time when the Chinese liked fake antiques to look as new as possible. Then there was a time when they were ham handed with fake patinas that you could spot from a mile away. Now they seem to have learned the art of carful distressing and aging of materials in a way that is making it tough to evaluate authenticity. The trickiest examples are often then sold through some of the less careful Western dealers.
Josh

KuKulzA28 · 16th July 2010, 05:06 PM

Ooooh, ok, thank you! Regardless, even if not authentic and old, if it's tight and sturdy, and made of good materials, I'm sure it'd be able to carry out it's intended self-defensive purposes.

fearn · 16th July 2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh stout

I use the term “sword breaker” as a term for its function. Technically this is a jian, with a different inflection than “jian” the two edged sword. Jian have a square cross section. Other terms are “bian” or an “iron whip”, which seems to refer to round cross sectioned sword breakers, and “taiji” or iron ruler for rectangular ruler like weapons, often with Chinese inch marks.

Hi Josh,

Hope it's a good piece, genuine or not. Personally, I'd love to see one of these in action, just to see if it really can break a sword. My bet is it can't, unless the sword is thin, and its wielder is incautious enough to do a strong block with it.

Still, it's a neat weapon. I privately call these things "quad swords." It's not an official term, but it gets across the idea of the four sharpened corners quite well.

One amusing side note: my uncle has an antique (and perfectly usable) knife hone that looks very much like this, although his has six edges, rather than four. The amusing thought is that a sword breaker might actually make the opponent's sword sharper if the met at the right angle.

Best,

F

Gavin Nugent · 16th July 2010, 10:19 PM

Hi Josh,

I like it, but saying that I wouldn't have bought it based on a few aspects.

I like the taper to the shaft and the way the dragon mouth opens around it, I even like some of the patina seen in the mouth.

My personal views, I don't like to differing patina or the colour of the patina to the fittings, this appears both incorrect and artifically aged to me. I have troubles with the colour and poor 'rolled' application of the grip covering and I personally would have expected it to have binding to the hilt, sure it could have been lost but there is no evidence of it ever being and the condition also says that it should still be there.

Over all it is an attractive piece and I look forward to hearing from those more knowledgable.

Gav

josh stout · 17th July 2010, 03:47 PM

It is a certainly a fake. I just saw a set of two that are the same construction.

Josh

Gavin Nugent · 18th July 2010, 09:42 AM

Sorry to hear it Josh. I don't know how much you payed for it? I am sure there is a lot of benefit you can gain for future buys by looking very close at these modern representations in the hand.

Gav

katana · 18th July 2010, 01:34 PM

Sorry too, that this is a fake

.....it seems that the Chinese are making 'patina' an art form.

....but I also have reservations about the functionallity of this type of sword breaker. My main concern is the lack of a guard ......a blade could easily slide down the 'spike' striking the hand of the wielder

(the dragon's mouth/ small square guard provides very little protection from this).
I understand that Sai , with their 'upturned' guard could also 'capture' the blade. Why, would a sword breaker not have this simple addition which would make it much more effective

and 'safer' for the user.

Regards David

16th July 2010, 10:19 PM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Nice Hi Josh, I like it, but saying that I wouldn't have bought it based on a few aspects. I like the taper to the shaft and the way the dragon mouth opens around it, I even like some of the patina seen in the mouth. My personal views, I don't like to differing patina or the colour of the patina to the fittings, this appears both incorrect and artifically aged to me. I have troubles with the colour and poor 'rolled' application of the grip covering and I personally would have expected it to have binding to the hilt, sure it could have been lost but there is no evidence of it ever being and the condition also says that it should still be there. Over all it is an attractive piece and I look forward to hearing from those more knowledgable. Gav

18th July 2010, 09:42 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Sorry to hear it Sorry to hear it Josh. I don't know how much you payed for it? I am sure there is a lot of benefit you can gain for future buys by looking very close at these modern representations in the hand. Gav

16th July 2010, 06:24 AM	#1
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I'm pretty new to these... Could someone please tell me, what's the difference between the "sword-breakers" and the thin "stick-maces"? Thanks.

16th July 2010, 04:27 PM	#2
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I use the term “sword breaker” as a term for its function. Technically this is a jian, with a different inflection than “jian” the two edged sword. Jian have a square cross section. Other terms are “bian” or an “iron whip”, which seems to refer to round cross sectioned sword breakers, and “taiji” or iron ruler for rectangular ruler like weapons, often with Chinese inch marks. I am worried because my Chinese friends say it is a fake. I am hoping they are wrong, but usually they are correct. A South East Asian origin is an interesting hypothesis. I don’t see anything that is clearly not Chinese, but then again Chinese sword breakers are almost never that ornate. It may be why my friends are doubtful. Often Chinese influenced things from the SEA region will be more ornate than originals. I will see if there is any way to tell when I get it. I don’t think there are any inscriptions. There was a time when the Chinese liked fake antiques to look as new as possible. Then there was a time when they were ham handed with fake patinas that you could spot from a mile away. Now they seem to have learned the art of carful distressing and aging of materials in a way that is making it tough to evaluate authenticity. The trickiest examples are often then sold through some of the less careful Western dealers. Josh

16th July 2010, 05:06 PM	#3
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Ooooh, ok, thank you! Regardless, even if not authentic and old, if it's tight and sturdy, and made of good materials, I'm sure it'd be able to carry out it's intended self-defensive purposes.

17th July 2010, 03:47 PM	#6
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	It is a certainly a fake. I just saw a set of two that are the same construction. Josh

18th July 2010, 01:34 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Sorry too, that this is a fake .....it seems that the Chinese are making 'patina' an art form. ....but I also have reservations about the functionallity of this type of sword breaker. My main concern is the lack of a guard ......a blade could easily slide down the 'spike' striking the hand of the wielder (the dragon's mouth/ small square guard provides very little protection from this). I understand that Sai , with their 'upturned' guard could also 'capture' the blade. Why, would a sword breaker not have this simple addition which would make it much more effective and 'safer' for the user. Regards David