Appreciation

[Rick]

Jean, addiction is a bit strong; no ?
An Addict would bankrupt himself collecting ...

For me; I collect when I can; but I know someday it will also be time for me to stop .
I will be content with what I have .

A collection can be a great burden on one's heirs .
Museums just let 'em rust .

[Laowang]

Originally Posted by Rick

Jean, addiction is a bit strong; no ?
An Addict would bankrupt himself collecting ...

For me; I collect when I can; but I know someday it will also be time for me to stop .
I will be content with what I have .

A collection can be a great burden on one's heirs .
Museums just let 'em rust .

Apropos of your posting, Rick:

When there is possession, there must be loss of possession; when there is a gathering together, there must be a scattering - this is the constant principle in things. Someone loses a bow; another person finds a bow; what's so special in that? The reason why I have recorded this story from beginning to end in such detail is to let it serve as a warning for scholars and collectors in later generations.

from Records on Metal and Stone, Li Qing-zhao, written during the second year of the Shao-xing Reign (1132), Song Dynasty, China

The collecting of things appears to fulfill some deep-seated need on our part as humans; my only disagreement with Alan's hypothesis would be that it is not just a modern phenomenon, as we can date collecting in China to as far back as the Han Dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE). Perhaps the need for refuge from everyday life was as great back then as it is now.

[A. G. Maisey]

Laowang, your quotation is accurate and appropriate, and cannot be faulted.

However, I will offer one correction:-

I have not put forward a hypothesis.

What I am looking for is the opinions of others in respect of the foundations of our appreciation of those things which we may choose to collect.

[Rick]

Should we look to the fetish bag as possibly the first incarnation of collecting ?

[A. G. Maisey]

Rick, what started my reflections upon this question was what I understood as related in my first post.

It appears that when we encounter something we think about that something not objectively, in isolation from all our previous experience, but subjectively . It appears that we cannot but react in this way. So, when we encounter something that relates to our field of collecting we are already thinking about that something in terms of what we already have in our minds. In other words, we cannot but help to "buy the story".

Perhaps not the story that is laid before us by Mr. Shonk, but rather the story that we probably self generated in our own sub-conscious from various inputs over a length of time. If asked, we could probably not even identify the "story" that is influencing us.

My enquiry is an attempt to get each of us to try to look into the very foundations of his own urge to collect.

We might have one person who identifies his collecting urge with investment, perhaps because of something he read or some experience that has convinced him he is wiser to place money into matchbox cars than into blue chips.

We might have somebody who begins to float (mentally , a la morphine) when he handles particular type of paper weight.

Perhaps a type of hairpin might take somebody back to childhood in grandma's house, so that person collects hairpins, in order to revisit a gentler time with each handling of a hairpin. The collector of hairpins probably does not consciously know this, but he or she does know that when the hairpin is handled an indefinable warm glow occurs.

All sorts of different things could cause all sorts of different reactions, and these different causes are currently what my thoughts are concerned with.

You told us that you "read a short story", and that awkened your interest in the keris. Very well, accepted. But what did that short story implant into your mind, and what effect does that implantation have upon your perception and appreciation of the keris?

Do you understand where I'm going with this?

[Rick]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Rick, what started my reflections upon this question was what I understood as related in my first post.

these different causes are currently what my thoughts are concerned with.

You told us that you "read a short story", and that awkened your interest in the keris. Very well, accepted. But what did that short story implant into your mind, and what effect does that implantation have upon your perception and appreciation of the keris?

Do you understand where I'm going with this?

Alan, you know that I am not the most eloquent of communicators .

So I must quote; this is a snippet of the implant and the dream and longing it awoke :

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"We knew him in those unprotected days when we were content to hold in our hands our lives and our property. None of us, I believe, has any property now, and I hear that many, negligently, have lost their lives; but I am sure that the few who survive are not yet so dim-eyed as to miss in the befogged respectability of their newspapers the intelligence of various native risings in the Eastern Archipelago. Sunshine gleams between the lines of those short paragraphs--sunshine and the glitter of the sea. A strange name wakes up memories; the printed words scent the smoky atmosphere of to-day faintly, with the subtle and penetrating perfume as of land breezes breathing through the starlight of bygone nights; a signal fire gleams like a jewel on the high brow of a sombre cliff; great trees, the advanced sentries of immense forests, stand watchful and still over sleeping stretches of open water; a line of white surf thunders on an empty beach, the shallow water foams on the reefs; and green islets scattered through the calm of noonday lie upon the level of a polished sea, like a handful of emeralds on a buckler of steel.

There are faces too--faces dark, truculent, and smiling; the frank audacious faces of men barefooted, well armed and noiseless. They thronged the narrow length of our schooner's decks with their ornamented and barbarous crowd, with the variegated colours of checkered sarongs, red turbans, white jackets, embroideries; with the gleam of scabbards, gold rings, charms, armlets, lance blades, and jewelled handles of their weapons. They had an independent bearing, resolute eyes, a restrained manner; and we seem yet to hear their soft voices speaking of battles, travels, and escapes; boasting with composure, joking quietly; sometimes in well-bred murmurs extolling their own valour, our generosity; or celebrating with loyal enthusiasm the virtues of their ruler. We remember the faces, the eyes, the voices, we see again the gleam of silk and metal; the murmuring stir of that crowd, brilliant, festive, and martial; and we seem to feel the touch of friendly brown hands that, after one short grasp, return to rest on a chased hilt."

Bang !!!

I was a goner .
I had my connection to the dreams, longings, and adventure of my Youth in something tangible .

[rasdan]

Hi all,
Given this some quick thought and here it is. These are normal stuff, all I had done is put it in writing and I may not be able to defend this much. I had a lot of stuff going on in my mind and I just write up whatever goes through at the moment with no critical analysis. Sorry if i got it all wrong or if i go out of topic.

From what I see, 3 general factors that govern lives of most of us are God, Glory and Gold (first figure). I think there’s a clear relationship between gold and glory. The relationship between God and the other two is subjective to our perception and sensitive and I’m not going to touch that. If we agree that these are the main purpose of our life then, everything that we do would evolve around these three factors. (Not all of the purposes are my own purposes in life/collecting, i am just trying to generalise what is the common objectives and I am not suggesting these as your goals in life/collecting as well)

Now, we have an “extra” purpose in our lives which is keris collecting. The three normal purposes why people collect and/or study keris are investment, status symbol and historic values/cultural relationship. While collecting as a tool for our investment and status symbol is quite obvious, there’s also people who collect/keep keris for it’s historic values/cultural relationship. These kerises are kept by museums, inheritors and general keris enthusiasts.

The common governing factor in achieving the first two objectives for collecting (investment and status) is quality. While inheritors and museums commonly can’t be bothered by quality, general keris enthusiasts will most likely go for that as a human nature (be it tangible or not).
If we construct the three purposes for collecting in a set (as we did in the first figure), we can see that this “extra” purpose is not really an extra since there’s a strong relationship between the two initial purpose of life - gold and glory with investment and status. Indirectly, investment and status can also be indirectly linked to God/doing good which again won’t discuss here.

So, is there any link for people that collect keris for its history and cultural relationships with God/doing any good? I think it also got something to do with quality. Since most collectors would spend most of their time trying to understand this. – To get a better investment and portrayal of their status. Along the way we actually collect experience and knowledge. Not just about keris but about life in general.

Therefore, the key word here is understanding quality. We can’t collect keris with the single aim of, say status symbol alone. For example, when we collect keris as a status symbol it is like wearing “nice” clothes when going to the mall or to the office. Why can’t we be bothered to dress like that when going to bed? Coz no one’s looking. Who decides whether our clothes are cool or not? It’s the media. Quality can be secondary in this business. Women can wear stilettos and hurt their ankles and say that’s quality fashion wear. People can have their hair dyed purple and if the TV people say that it’s cool, they would probably think that they are on the right track. You can wear a plain sweater you got for Christmas to the office but if the media says it is out of date and you look like a geek you may end up throwing it away.

However on second thought, when we know quality and choose to keep a high quality keris it does not mean that we are after the status or investment. (Which makes Figure 2 inaccurate (?) any other suggestions?.. now i myself am confused ). Ok, nevermind the diagram. If we know to quantify quality, we can have a keris, keep it in a drawer and studies/wonders about its history and feel good about it without relying on weather other people say it’s good or not. In other words, we must know the real quality. Not just the stuff commonly understood by normal people. Again, to achieve that level we must undergo the quality identification/quantification process described above. It takes knowledge to quantify quality and if we really know quality we can’t be bothered what other people say about it.

So, what’s quality got to do with God/doing good? It lies in the knowledge gained in attaining the knowledge about it.

A big time keris collector and a long time dealer/collector in Malaysia died last year. For the big time collector, none of his children enjoys keris very much. They are very rich people and his children had chosen to leave the kerises in his private gallery. As for the other one dealer/collector, his collections were sold off by his son. No more glory, no more gold to enjoy. What is left is the good that they had done.

In conclusion, my current opinion is that although investment, status symbol and cultural/history purposes in keris collecting may lead to doing something good, quality understanding is the most important part in keris collecting since it would lead to the ultimate objective(?) in collecting which is probably to leave a trail of useful and critical knowledge that would be useful to one's nation or perhaps to mankind – true keris making skills, knowledge and quality publications that have good references and would stand to critical evaluation. Unfortunately, i think we will need more than 20 years of critical experience before we can even consider leaving our "trail of knowledge" or we may run the risk of spreading the wrong knowledge IMHO. This "trail of knowledge" would complete "Link x" in Figure 1. i.e I am suggesting that whatever purpose we have in life we must link it with God/doing good.