Appreciation

Gustav · 13th July 2010, 10:22 PM

Me too.

Rick · 13th July 2010, 11:39 PM

Sorry ?

Just bought a newer car .
Having the kitchen remodeled .
Added a Garden Shed, and maybe air conditioning .

What is this substance you refer to as "disposable income" ?

Paul Duffy · 14th July 2010, 06:57 AM

Alan,
What a wonderful fire-ball to throw into the Keris-Warung- Kopi hearth,the puzzlying nature of human pleasure.I've not read the book,but in a review I see that the author argues that pleasure is not primarily a response to certain perceptual and sensory experiences,but instead has a significant cognitive component,what we think about has a huge impact on how much pleasure we derive from it.
I'm a collector of keris,my appreciation was,and still is the complexity of a keris.I have,over time come to understand that a keris comprises many components,handle and fittings,sheath,and blade.I certainly gain more knowledge about the keris,and the community in which they were and still are made and used by reading,looking at as many keris as I can,and by visiting this site.
I know that part of my pleasure is being able to learn more,I suppose why else would I be here on the web.
But my pleasure is not in the dollar value,although it is a factor.Business and pleasure can co-exist
I enjoy showing keris to friends,collectors and non-collectors who are interested.
I sometimes wonder if the pleasure is just the ability to escape from the discipline of every-day working life.But then why not just listen to Bill Frissell playing jazz guitar,or almost any Beethoven music.
I don't know why I don't have the same fascination for Japanese,or Indian edged weapons,,why do I get more pleasure from keris,especially those from
Java.
I think it is a very subjective issue,and I agree that many friends and family don't share my pleasure.Though some do,it's hard not to resist the odour of Indonesia.Once a friend picks up a keris,looks at the blade,wonders about the pamour,or sniffs scented wood then they have been affected by the fire ball.

BluErf · 14th July 2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Sorry ?

Just bought a newer car .
Having the kitchen remodeled .
Added a Garden Shed, and maybe air conditioning .

What is this substance you refer to as "disposable income" ?

Sorry, let me call it by a better name - "self-actualization funds"

I aspire towards building the best keris collection in Singapore!!

Now you'd have motivation to get a smaller car, live with the good ol' kitchen and do without the shed that you never actually needed...

Rick · 14th July 2010, 06:02 PM

Words escape me right now !!

Are you a married Guy Kai Wee ?

Yes, the kerisses take me away from the mundane plastic world that we endure daily .
An investment in sanity if you will .

RSWORD · 14th July 2010, 06:43 PM

A great and complicated question. I think my pleasure in collecting involves a number of aspects.

The first is the thrill of the hunt. I think there is a little bit of treasure hunter in all of us. Rummaging through an old garage sale and stumbling onto a nice antique weapon, albeit a rarer occurance these days, is quite enjoyable.

The second is having a tangible link to the past. I think we collectors have vivid imaginations and I like to imagine the journey a 300 year old sword has had from point of origin to my hands today. I have learned more about world history through the study of swords than I ever did in the classroom. But letting my imagination run rampant is most enjoyable.

The third is an appreciation of the skill and artistry exhibited in these pieces. These aesthetics bring joy to the artistic side of my brain. When you look closely there are always so many minute points of detail to enjoy. From time to time, I find something new to enjoy in a piece I have had for years and this is enjoyable. The old saying, "They don't make them like they used to" is so true.

I have noticed that the more I learn about my sword collection the more I appreciate what I have. It seems the more I appreciate what I have, the more I want to learn. It is a never ending loop.

David · 14th July 2010, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

A great and complicated question. I think my pleasure in collecting involves a number of aspects.
The first is the thrill of the hunt. I think there is a little bit of treasure hunter in all of us. Rummaging through an old garage sale and stumbling onto a nice antique weapon, albeit a rarer occurance these days, is quite enjoyable.
The second is having a tangible link to the past. I think we collectors have vivid imaginations and I like to imagine the journey a 300 year old sword has had from point of origin to my hands today. I have learned more about world history through the study of swords than I ever did in the classroom. But letting my imagination run rampant is most enjoyable.
The third is an appreciation of the skill and artistry exhibited in these pieces. These aesthetics bring joy to the artistic side of my brain. When you look closely there are always so many minute points of detail to enjoy. From time to time, I find something new to enjoy in a piece I have had for years and this is enjoyable. The old saying, "They don't make them like they used to" is so true.

Rick echos some of my thoughts on the question with a few adjustments.
The first is the thrill of the hunt.
Must admit there is nothing like finding a great buy in an unusual place. Hardly the first concern for me as i tend to buy most of my keris from established dealers. But every now and then finding an undiscovered treasure can be exhilarating.

The second is having a tangible link to the past.
I think this is an important one for me. The vast majority of my collection are antique keris. It isn't important to me if it once belonged to a peasant or a sultan, but i am most interested in keris that actual found a life within the context of a past Indonesian culture. So the exact story is relatively unimportant to me. I am more interested that there is an undiscovered and perhaps undiscoverable story there. Actually the only keris i ever bought for the "story" was a contemporary Maduran naga keris of little quality, but it was once owned by the captain of the Picton Castle, a three-masted barque that yearly sails clear around the world with stops in Bali. I was fascinated by how well travelled this piece was since it had circumnavigated the global many, many times making it perhaps the most well-travelled keris in the world.

I know the story is true because i bought it from the captain himself, who proudly showed me his replacement keris a rather gaudy naga with nasty brass "kinatah" all over it. I much preferred his older, less adorned companion. It was a story and concept well worth the $50 i paid for it.

The third is an appreciation of the skill and artistry exhibited in these pieces.
This is most definitely a major consideration for me. I simply marvel at the sheer beauty of the keris, from blade to even the simplest of dress. This is what also keeps me open to acquiring contemporary pieces from time to time as i can maintain in my collection levels of artistic achievement that i might not otherwise be able to afford in an antique keris. I must disagree Rick, because i think that in many way they do still "make them like they used to" and in some ways they make them even better (artistically). The levels of artistic accomplishment in keris making today are superb.
I would also add that for me the interest of keris goes beyond history and into mystery. I am fascinated by the mythology behind it and the culture from which it is born, living on the edge between the seen and unseen worlds. There is a lure of magick and mysticism here, which while horribly over played to the gullible for commercial allure is non-the-less a reality that is special to a time and a place that is presently at risk of vanishing completely from the face of the earth.

A. G. Maisey · 15th July 2010, 12:33 AM

Thank you gentlemen for your responses, and I do hope more responses from others will follow.

Reading these responses what I am seeing is a recital of the reasons why we collect, as we ourselves see those reasons.

Speaking for myself, I am uncertain that I can clearly identify why I continue to collect keris. The keris has been a part of my life for so long that taking a keris into my care has become almost an automatic response. In recent years, say, the last ten years or so, when I buy a keris that I identify as one that is to be kept, it is almost as if on the first moment that I see it, there is a cord that runs from the keris to me. I usually do not examine it critically, and condition is of absolutely no importance, that keris goes home with me. Other times I will buy a keris for myself just because I recognise its quality, or rarity, but often a purchase of this type lacks that "connective" element.

So, that's how I buy, but why do I buy?

I don't really know, except that it is what I do.

However, if I go back a long way in time, I can very clearly recall that being in contact with keris was something that took me into another world. Maybe the reason why this doesn't happen now is because to a large extent I have been living in that other world --- albeit a modern version of it --- for many years now.

We can all probably rationalise our collecting in one way or another, however, I would like to put forth the idea that at its roots, our collecting is an emotional activity that is the product of memories and experiences stored in the sub-conscious, and the activities that we undertake when we collect, give us with access to those stored memories and experiences, providing pleasure and assisting in the maintenance of mental balance in our increasingly difficult world.

As Rick said:-

An investment in sanity if you will .

BluErf · 16th July 2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Words escape me right now !!

Are you a married Guy Kai Wee ?

Yes, the kerisses take me away from the mundane plastic world that we endure daily .
An investment in sanity if you will .

Yes, I'm married

I convinced my wife that it was gd investment.

Rick · 16th July 2010, 04:02 PM

I bow in your general direction , Sir .

14th July 2010, 06:57 AM	#3
Paul Duffy Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 31	Appreciation Alan, What a wonderful fire-ball to throw into the Keris-Warung- Kopi hearth,the puzzlying nature of human pleasure.I've not read the book,but in a review I see that the author argues that pleasure is not primarily a response to certain perceptual and sensory experiences,but instead has a significant cognitive component,what we think about has a huge impact on how much pleasure we derive from it. I'm a collector of keris,my appreciation was,and still is the complexity of a keris.I have,over time come to understand that a keris comprises many components,handle and fittings,sheath,and blade.I certainly gain more knowledge about the keris,and the community in which they were and still are made and used by reading,looking at as many keris as I can,and by visiting this site. I know that part of my pleasure is being able to learn more,I suppose why else would I be here on the web. But my pleasure is not in the dollar value,although it is a factor.Business and pleasure can co-exist I enjoy showing keris to friends,collectors and non-collectors who are interested. I sometimes wonder if the pleasure is just the ability to escape from the discipline of every-day working life.But then why not just listen to Bill Frissell playing jazz guitar,or almost any Beethoven music. I don't know why I don't have the same fascination for Japanese,or Indian edged weapons,,why do I get more pleasure from keris,especially those from Java. I think it is a very subjective issue,and I agree that many friends and family don't share my pleasure.Though some do,it's hard not to resist the odour of Indonesia.Once a friend picks up a keris,looks at the blade,wonders about the pamour,or sniffs scented wood then they have been affected by the fire ball.

16th July 2010, 04:02 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Well Done ! I bow in your general direction , Sir .

13th July 2010, 10:22 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Me too.

13th July 2010, 11:39 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Sorry ? Just bought a newer car . Having the kitchen remodeled . Added a Garden Shed, and maybe air conditioning . What is this substance you refer to as "disposable income" ?

14th July 2010, 06:02 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Words escape me right now !! Are you a married Guy Kai Wee ? Yes, the kerisses take me away from the mundane plastic world that we endure daily . An investment in sanity if you will .

14th July 2010, 06:43 PM	#6
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	A great and complicated question. I think my pleasure in collecting involves a number of aspects. The first is the thrill of the hunt. I think there is a little bit of treasure hunter in all of us. Rummaging through an old garage sale and stumbling onto a nice antique weapon, albeit a rarer occurance these days, is quite enjoyable. The second is having a tangible link to the past. I think we collectors have vivid imaginations and I like to imagine the journey a 300 year old sword has had from point of origin to my hands today. I have learned more about world history through the study of swords than I ever did in the classroom. But letting my imagination run rampant is most enjoyable. The third is an appreciation of the skill and artistry exhibited in these pieces. These aesthetics bring joy to the artistic side of my brain. When you look closely there are always so many minute points of detail to enjoy. From time to time, I find something new to enjoy in a piece I have had for years and this is enjoyable. The old saying, "They don't make them like they used to" is so true. I have noticed that the more I learn about my sword collection the more I appreciate what I have. It seems the more I appreciate what I have, the more I want to learn. It is a never ending loop.

15th July 2010, 12:33 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Thank you gentlemen for your responses, and I do hope more responses from others will follow. Reading these responses what I am seeing is a recital of the reasons why we collect, as we ourselves see those reasons. Speaking for myself, I am uncertain that I can clearly identify why I continue to collect keris. The keris has been a part of my life for so long that taking a keris into my care has become almost an automatic response. In recent years, say, the last ten years or so, when I buy a keris that I identify as one that is to be kept, it is almost as if on the first moment that I see it, there is a cord that runs from the keris to me. I usually do not examine it critically, and condition is of absolutely no importance, that keris goes home with me. Other times I will buy a keris for myself just because I recognise its quality, or rarity, but often a purchase of this type lacks that "connective" element. So, that's how I buy, but why do I buy? I don't really know, except that it is what I do. However, if I go back a long way in time, I can very clearly recall that being in contact with keris was something that took me into another world. Maybe the reason why this doesn't happen now is because to a large extent I have been living in that other world --- albeit a modern version of it --- for many years now. We can all probably rationalise our collecting in one way or another, however, I would like to put forth the idea that at its roots, our collecting is an emotional activity that is the product of memories and experiences stored in the sub-conscious, and the activities that we undertake when we collect, give us with access to those stored memories and experiences, providing pleasure and assisting in the maintenance of mental balance in our increasingly difficult world. As Rick said:- An investment in sanity if you will .