Need example of Pamors: Meteor, Luwu, and modern Nickel

A. G. Maisey · 22nd June 2010, 11:59 PM

Rasdan, in my opinion you are chasing ghosts if you are trying to identify and classify the various types of iron that are listed in old handbooks. In the lists I have there are many, many types listed, along with extremely subjective descriptions. The appearance of iron depends on a number of factors, such as the amount and intensity of forging and welding, the degree of erosion, the type and condition of the etch, the type and condition of the stain --- and so on.

To take an old, nondescript blade in less than pristine condition, and then attempt to classify that iron in accordance with the descriptions found in the handbooks is almost a totally futile pursuit.

You certainly need to be able to identify high quality, dense iron, and to gauge the degree of porosity in iron, but to go further than this is to a large degree only self deception.

Forget trying to name the material and concentrate on gaining skill in identifying quality and identifying rubbish.

This opinion is my own opinion, and I have no intention of forcing it on others, nor of arguing in its defence. Everybody can believe what they will.

However, I, and anybody else with a degree of skill in forge work and etching and staining ferric materials, can demonstrate just how easy it is to change the visual appearance of iron.

Metallurgy can provide analyses and a metallurgist who is trained in historical metallurgy can tell quite a lot about material with laboratory techniques, but that does not advance the cause of a collector or student of the keris who needs to be able to look at a blade, often in very unfavourable conditions, and make a judgement as to how much money he is prepared to pay for it.For this we need to be able to look at a blade and gauge the quality of the material in the blade. In the most simple of terms, this comes down to dense, well packed material, no porosity, no forging cracks indicating hot shortness, which in turn will indicate inadequate washing, and the potential for porosity with erosion.Blades are not always in good stain, so colour is not always useful, and you really don't know what the correct colour is until you do the stain yourself, or have it done by a competent professional.Again, there is no substitute for hands on experience.

22nd June 2010, 11:59 PM	#36
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Rasdan, in my opinion you are chasing ghosts if you are trying to identify and classify the various types of iron that are listed in old handbooks. In the lists I have there are many, many types listed, along with extremely subjective descriptions. The appearance of iron depends on a number of factors, such as the amount and intensity of forging and welding, the degree of erosion, the type and condition of the etch, the type and condition of the stain --- and so on. To take an old, nondescript blade in less than pristine condition, and then attempt to classify that iron in accordance with the descriptions found in the handbooks is almost a totally futile pursuit. You certainly need to be able to identify high quality, dense iron, and to gauge the degree of porosity in iron, but to go further than this is to a large degree only self deception. Forget trying to name the material and concentrate on gaining skill in identifying quality and identifying rubbish. This opinion is my own opinion, and I have no intention of forcing it on others, nor of arguing in its defence. Everybody can believe what they will. However, I, and anybody else with a degree of skill in forge work and etching and staining ferric materials, can demonstrate just how easy it is to change the visual appearance of iron. Metallurgy can provide analyses and a metallurgist who is trained in historical metallurgy can tell quite a lot about material with laboratory techniques, but that does not advance the cause of a collector or student of the keris who needs to be able to look at a blade, often in very unfavourable conditions, and make a judgement as to how much money he is prepared to pay for it.For this we need to be able to look at a blade and gauge the quality of the material in the blade. In the most simple of terms, this comes down to dense, well packed material, no porosity, no forging cracks indicating hot shortness, which in turn will indicate inadequate washing, and the potential for porosity with erosion.Blades are not always in good stain, so colour is not always useful, and you really don't know what the correct colour is until you do the stain yourself, or have it done by a competent professional.Again, there is no substitute for hands on experience.