Is it a keris and from which island?

David · 10th May 2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I have the option to buy this keris (?) and have the allowance to post the pictures here. Since it have a seperate gonjo even if it hasn't the overall look like a keris I post it here.

I would say that it does have the "overall look of a keris". It looks to be a form of keris sepang to me, though the photos aren't clear enough to tell anything for sure. The hilt is quite unusual for a keris though.

A. G. Maisey · 10th May 2010, 02:29 PM

Based on what I can see in the pics, it looks old, it looks honest, and it looks like a very peculiar thing.

I'd call it a pedang suduk rather than a keris --- in spite of the scabbard.

David · 10th May 2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Based on what I can see in the pics, it looks old, it looks honest, and it looks like a very peculiar thing.

I'd call it a pedang suduk rather than a keris --- in spite of the scabbard.

hmmm....none of the pedang sudak i have seen have had a gonjo or such a keris-like asymmetric base...

Sajen · 10th May 2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Based on what I can see in the pics, it looks old, it looks honest, and it looks like a very peculiar thing.

I'd call it a pedang suduk rather than a keris --- in spite of the scabbard.

It's peculiar indeed! I am see-saw if it's a keris or not.

Rick · 10th May 2010, 07:34 PM

A cousin to ?
Transitional form ?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=sadop

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=sadop

drdavid · 10th May 2010, 10:29 PM

Maybe if we go back to the old form leads to function arguement, does this have a blumbangan (I cannot tell from the pictures). That is to say can it be held like a keris. If it cannot then we should probably not call it a keris
drd

A. G. Maisey · 10th May 2010, 11:13 PM

I have seen, I have had, and I still have pedangs with gonjo, kembang kacang, and ron dha.

A keris can have a gonjo, but not all blades with a gonjo are keris blades.

This blade has some characteristics that we might expect to see in a keris blade, but it does not come close to any dhapur I can recall.

However, the alignment of hilt to blade angle is perfect for a pedang suduk, and the hilt itself, which appears to be contemporaneous with the blade and scabbard, is a pedang hilt, rather than a keris hilt.

Note also the curve of the blade, which is towards the wadidang side of the blade, rather than the front of the blade, now imagine if this were to be mounted as a keris:- the blade curve would be in the wrong direction; a keris blade curves away from the wadidang, not towards it..

This is a pedang suduk. Mounted in a unique and peculiar way, but a pedang suduk just the same.

For origin I tend towards Palembang area:- the scabbard has Palembang characteristics, the blade has Javanese characteristics, and Javanese characteristics also occur in better Palembang blades. The hilt has been carved in an archaic style that does occur in Jawa.

Marcokeris · 11th May 2010, 02:52 PM

I would be very very happy to have one like this in my home

Sajen · 11th May 2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I have seen, I have had, and I still have pedangs with gonjo, kembang kacang, and ron dha.

A keris can have a gonjo, but not all blades with a gonjo are keris blades.

This blade has some characteristics that we might expect to see in a keris blade, but it does not come close to any dhapur I can recall.

However, the alignment of hilt to blade angle is perfect for a pedang suduk, and the hilt itself, which appears to be contemporaneous with the blade and scabbard, is a pedang hilt, rather than a keris hilt.

Note also the curve of the blade, which is towards the wadidang side of the blade, rather than the front of the blade, now imagine if this were to be mounted as a keris:- the blade curve would be in the wrong direction; a keris blade curves away from the wadidang, not towards it..

This is a pedang suduk. Mounted in a unique and peculiar way, but a pedang suduk just the same.

For origin I tend towards Palembang area:- the scabbard has Palembang characteristics, the blade has Javanese characteristics, and Javanese characteristics also occur in better Palembang blades. The hilt has been carved in an archaic style that does occur in Jawa.

Very conclusive arguments. And the sheat has indeed Palembang characteristics. Thank you Alan.

Sajen · 11th May 2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

A cousin to ?
Transitional form ?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=sadop

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=sadop

Now I know why I have had in mind a possible origin from Borneo. But I think that Alan is mostly correct by his statements.

Rick · 11th May 2010, 05:37 PM

I expect he is .
We'll keep the thread here even though it's not a keris .

Henk · 11th May 2010, 08:02 PM

Looking in the books by Tammens i see pictures of a keris cundrik. Also a keris blade with sword features. Could it be something like that??

Just a thought.

Sajen · 10th May 2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I would say that it does have the "overall look of a keris". It looks to be a form of keris sepang to me, though the photos aren't clear enough to tell anything for sure. The hilt is quite unusual for a keris though.

Thank you David, sepang have been also my thought but like you see by Alan's post I am not the only one who is unsure if it is a keris. And the handle affiremed me by this.

What do you think about the origin?

10th May 2010, 07:34 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Hmmm A cousin to ? Transitional form ? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=sadop http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=sadop

10th May 2010, 02:29 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Based on what I can see in the pics, it looks old, it looks honest, and it looks like a very peculiar thing. I'd call it a pedang suduk rather than a keris --- in spite of the scabbard.

10th May 2010, 10:29 PM	#6
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Maybe if we go back to the old form leads to function arguement, does this have a blumbangan (I cannot tell from the pictures). That is to say can it be held like a keris. If it cannot then we should probably not call it a keris drd

10th May 2010, 11:13 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	I have seen, I have had, and I still have pedangs with gonjo, kembang kacang, and ron dha. A keris can have a gonjo, but not all blades with a gonjo are keris blades. This blade has some characteristics that we might expect to see in a keris blade, but it does not come close to any dhapur I can recall. However, the alignment of hilt to blade angle is perfect for a pedang suduk, and the hilt itself, which appears to be contemporaneous with the blade and scabbard, is a pedang hilt, rather than a keris hilt. Note also the curve of the blade, which is towards the wadidang side of the blade, rather than the front of the blade, now imagine if this were to be mounted as a keris:- the blade curve would be in the wrong direction; a keris blade curves away from the wadidang, not towards it.. This is a pedang suduk. Mounted in a unique and peculiar way, but a pedang suduk just the same. For origin I tend towards Palembang area:- the scabbard has Palembang characteristics, the blade has Javanese characteristics, and Javanese characteristics also occur in better Palembang blades. The hilt has been carved in an archaic style that does occur in Jawa.

11th May 2010, 02:52 PM	#8
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I would be very very happy to have one like this in my home

11th May 2010, 05:37 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	I expect he is . We'll keep the thread here even though it's not a keris .

11th May 2010, 08:02 PM	#12
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Looking in the books by Tammens i see pictures of a keris cundrik. Also a keris blade with sword features. Could it be something like that?? Just a thought.