Pictures Only - Page 2

Marcokeris · 28th August 2007, 01:09 PM

onix yogya hilt

Flavio · 28th August 2007, 08:21 PM

Hi all, I was later here and maybe not invited (i'm joking

)!!! Of course all the pictures are wonderful, but Aji, you post some pictures that drive me crazy!!!! Congratulations guys

Sajen · 25th April 2010, 10:25 PM

Yesterday I found this old thread. It woud be dumpish when it will be dead. So here it goes: only pictures, no comment!

Marcokeris · 26th April 2010, 08:36 AM

Kemuning gayaman, bone deder, blarang ngirit pamor

semar · 26th April 2010, 06:58 PM

No words Only Picture

Sajen · 26th April 2010, 07:49 PM

Great! One more.

BluErf · 30th April 2010, 04:08 PM

Oddball addition

BluErf · 30th April 2010, 04:09 PM

2

BluErf · 30th April 2010, 04:14 PM

3

BluErf · 30th April 2010, 04:18 PM

Oddball no. 2

BluErf · 30th April 2010, 04:21 PM

2

Rick · 30th April 2010, 04:24 PM

Paint .

Alam Shah · 30th April 2010, 04:47 PM

The thread is turning into an oddball.. ahem! unique pieces..

BluErf, the one with the gap under the hilt is a one off,.. wow! a full face under there..

Ok, here's mine.. an albino horn hilt with a black horn cup (pendokok).

Battara · 30th April 2010, 05:10 PM

Albino horn!

For a minute there I thought it was some kind of mother-of-pearl.....

Sajen · 30th April 2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The thread is turning into an oddball.. ahem! unique pieces..

BluErf, the one with the gap under the hilt is a one off, a full face under there..

Ok, here's mine.. an albino horn hilt with a black horn cup (pendokok).

WoW!

BluErf · 2nd May 2010, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The thread is turning into an oddball.. ahem! unique pieces..

BluErf, the one with the gap under the hilt is a one off,.. wow! a full face under there..

Ok, here's mine.. an albino horn hilt with a black horn cup (pendokok).

I covert thy black horn pendoko!!!

ganjawulung · 2nd May 2010, 03:15 AM

Keris with wooden-pendhok and "the strad"...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung · 2nd May 2010, 03:19 AM

And imageS of the wooden pendhok, philisium wood, made by Mas Min from Solo

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 2nd May 2010, 04:48 AM

John Denver had a fine appreciation of beautiful wood too.

ganjawulung · 2nd May 2010, 05:24 AM

Not sure, if this image picturing a Puthut and Kupu Tarung pamor...

GANJAWULUNG

Moshah · 7th May 2010, 04:11 PM

for thee who could not afford silverware...

Sajen · 16th May 2010, 08:06 PM

Rare Solo hilt from kayu cendana.

A. G. Maisey · 17th May 2010, 12:10 AM

Solo?

As in "Surakarta" ?

Sajen · 17th May 2010, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Solo?

As in "Surakarta" ?

Taken without proof from "Regam Hulu Keris" from Suhartono Rahardjo, pic. 19.

Alam Shah · 18th May 2010, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Rare Solo hilt from kayu cendana.

Hi Sajen,

First look, I thought it was an off Surakarta hilt form, looking at the base carvings. Normally what I see is the naga near the top, while most part, still retaining the tunggak semi form. pictures of smilies:
wink:

big grin:

hmmm:

A. G. Maisey · 18th May 2010, 09:38 AM

Thanks Sajen, I see what you mean. However, although there is some similarity between your hilt and the ones shown in Ragam Hulu, there are, to my eye, significant differences.

#19 in Ragam Hulu is stylistically Central Jawa, and I'd be happy to accept Surakarta pending evidence, #20 in Ragam Hulu I do not see as stylistically Central Jawa, to my eye, more North Coast/Madura, and I would want some evidence before I'd accept it as Surakarta.

Your hilt is in my opinion, not stylistically Central Jawa, and does bear a number of characteristics that we are accustomed to seeing in Madura/ North Coast hilts. I tend towards a Madura origin for this hilt.

I must admit, I sometimes wonder at the attributions in Ragam Hulu. A lot of them I can agree with beyond question, but others I feel that the author has given the place of acquisition, rather the the place of origin.

For example, hilts # 17, 18, 19 20 are all naga motifs.

#17 I am able to accept as Surakarta beyond question --- I've seen old examples, I've seen drawings in Surakarta pattern books, several tukang jejeran I know recognise this as a Surakarta form.

However, with #18 and #19 the only similar examples I've seen have been very recent Madura. With #20, I have never seen an example, either old or recent.

#18 and #19 I would accept as Surakarta on face value, and then look for evidence, because of the cecekan and the planar form, but #20 has no cecekan, no planar form, and stylistically just cannot be aligned to a Central Javanese form or motif.

What we need to remember is this:- a jejeran does not usually stand alone, it is a part of an ensemble; to mate these jejeran with wrongkos, we need to ask who, when, where, why and what sort of wrongko.

I said "usually".

PBX caused a number of very oddball hilts to be produced as stand-alone works of art. We need to accept these as Surakarta, simply because they were produced to the order of the ruler, but my belief is that only the ruler, whether actual or symbolic, has the prerogative to designate a form as belonging to his kingdom. Freddie Suwanka cannot just produce some unusual hilts in Solo and then call them Surakarta jejeran.

Nope.

Only the boss can do that.

So, if we come across unusual hilts with a designation of Surakarta, I would want to see the original in a royal collection before I'd accept it as Surakarta.

These are my standards, and others may have different standards, to which, they are of course, entitled.

Sajen · 18th May 2010, 04:34 PM

Hello Alam and Alan,

have to agree that my hilt is different since it have no patra in down but a tumpal motif. I incline like Alan that the motifs shows more north coast or Madura origin. My view inside the book have been to cursory.
And guwaya note in an other thread already that you can't take this book as a reference book.

David · 18th May 2010, 06:28 PM

I would just like to remind everyone that the title of this particular thread is "Pictures ONLY".

semar · 18th May 2010, 07:08 PM

...............................

A. G. Maisey · 19th May 2010, 12:14 AM

Point taken David, and I agree that I, for one, have moved outside the parameters.

May I suggest that from this point this thread becomes strictly pictures only?

With no text, there can be no comment on existing text that accompanies the pictures.

28th August 2007, 01:09 PM	#31
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	onix yogya hilt Attached Images

25th April 2010, 10:25 PM	#33
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	Yesterday I found this old thread. It woud be dumpish when it will be dead. So here it goes: only pictures, no comment! Attached Images

26th April 2010, 08:36 AM	#34
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Kemuning gayaman, bone deder, blarang ngirit pamor Attached Images

26th April 2010, 06:58 PM	#35
semar Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 272	No words Only Picture No words Only Picture Attached Images

26th April 2010, 07:49 PM	#36
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	Great! One more. Attached Images

28th August 2007, 08:21 PM	#32
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi all, I was later here and maybe not invited (i'm joking )!!! Of course all the pictures are wonderful, but Aji, you post some pictures that drive me crazy!!!! Congratulations guys

30th April 2010, 04:08 PM	#37
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Oddball addition Attached Images

30th April 2010, 04:09 PM	#38
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	2 Attached Images

30th April 2010, 04:14 PM	#39
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	3 Attached Images

30th April 2010, 04:18 PM	#40
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Oddball no. 2 Attached Images

30th April 2010, 04:21 PM	#41
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	2 Attached Images

30th April 2010, 04:24 PM	#42
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Paint ! Paint . Attached Images

30th April 2010, 04:47 PM	#43
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	The thread is turning into an oddball.. ahem! unique pieces.. BluErf, the one with the gap under the hilt is a one off,.. wow! a full face under there.. Ok, here's mine.. an albino horn hilt with a black horn cup (pendokok). Attached Images Last edited by Alam Shah; 1st May 2010 at 03:21 AM.

30th April 2010, 05:10 PM	#44
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Albino horn! For a minute there I thought it was some kind of mother-of-pearl.....

2nd May 2010, 03:15 AM	#47
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	StradLike Chatoyant Keris with wooden-pendhok and "the strad"... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

2nd May 2010, 03:19 AM	#48
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	The Wooden Pendhok And imageS of the wooden pendhok, philisium wood, made by Mas Min from Solo GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

2nd May 2010, 04:48 AM	#49
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	John Denver had a fine appreciation of beautiful wood too. Attached Images

2nd May 2010, 05:24 AM	#50
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Puthut and Kupu Tarung? Not sure, if this image picturing a Puthut and Kupu Tarung pamor... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

7th May 2010, 04:11 PM	#51
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	for thee who could not afford silverware... Attached Images

16th May 2010, 08:06 PM	#52
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	Rare Solo hilt from kayu cendana. Attached Images

17th May 2010, 12:10 AM	#53
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Solo? As in "Surakarta" ?

18th May 2010, 09:38 AM	#56
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Thanks Sajen, I see what you mean. However, although there is some similarity between your hilt and the ones shown in Ragam Hulu, there are, to my eye, significant differences. #19 in Ragam Hulu is stylistically Central Jawa, and I'd be happy to accept Surakarta pending evidence, #20 in Ragam Hulu I do not see as stylistically Central Jawa, to my eye, more North Coast/Madura, and I would want some evidence before I'd accept it as Surakarta. Your hilt is in my opinion, not stylistically Central Jawa, and does bear a number of characteristics that we are accustomed to seeing in Madura/ North Coast hilts. I tend towards a Madura origin for this hilt. I must admit, I sometimes wonder at the attributions in Ragam Hulu. A lot of them I can agree with beyond question, but others I feel that the author has given the place of acquisition, rather the the place of origin. For example, hilts # 17, 18, 19 20 are all naga motifs. #17 I am able to accept as Surakarta beyond question --- I've seen old examples, I've seen drawings in Surakarta pattern books, several tukang jejeran I know recognise this as a Surakarta form. However, with #18 and #19 the only similar examples I've seen have been very recent Madura. With #20, I have never seen an example, either old or recent. #18 and #19 I would accept as Surakarta on face value, and then look for evidence, because of the cecekan and the planar form, but #20 has no cecekan, no planar form, and stylistically just cannot be aligned to a Central Javanese form or motif. What we need to remember is this:- a jejeran does not usually stand alone, it is a part of an ensemble; to mate these jejeran with wrongkos, we need to ask who, when, where, why and what sort of wrongko. I said "usually". PBX caused a number of very oddball hilts to be produced as stand-alone works of art. We need to accept these as Surakarta, simply because they were produced to the order of the ruler, but my belief is that only the ruler, whether actual or symbolic, has the prerogative to designate a form as belonging to his kingdom. Freddie Suwanka cannot just produce some unusual hilts in Solo and then call them Surakarta jejeran. Nope. Only the boss can do that. So, if we come across unusual hilts with a designation of Surakarta, I would want to see the original in a royal collection before I'd accept it as Surakarta. These are my standards, and others may have different standards, to which, they are of course, entitled.

18th May 2010, 04:34 PM	#57
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	Hello Alam and Alan, have to agree that my hilt is different since it have no patra in down but a tumpal motif. I incline like Alan that the motifs shows more north coast or Madura origin. My view inside the book have been to cursory. And guwaya note in an other thread already that you can't take this book as a reference book.

18th May 2010, 06:28 PM	#58
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	I would just like to remind everyone that the title of this particular thread is "Pictures ONLY".

18th May 2010, 07:08 PM	#59
semar Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 272	........................................... ............................... Attached Images

19th May 2010, 12:14 AM	#60
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	Point taken David, and I agree that I, for one, have moved outside the parameters. May I suggest that from this point this thread becomes strictly pictures only? With no text, there can be no comment on existing text that accompanies the pictures.