Wootz Marsh Arab dagger translation help?

ALEX · 21st April 2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

... ...
Interesting you see it as sham wootz? most sham Ive had is more simple & linear in style? Artzi web site shows few clearly sham examples I think?

Fascinated that you think a swordsmith cant reforge this blade out of another broken larger blade, I dont realy comprhend that as to my mind if a sword smith can forge a blade out of wootz {or any other steel.} why can they not reforge a blade from one type or size to another?

Thanks for your thoughts though Alex, was that your rhino horn gurade on ebay recently, as the buy it know price dropedf I nearly bought it, but then it was gone..

Such is ebay though..

Spiral

Hi Spiral,

Sham wootz is characterized by low contrast/less complex pattern, and I think your blade is sham.

The reason I think the blade is original is because of it's geometry/curvature. The smith could re-forge it from another broken blade.. but why? it'd be so much easier to create it by stock removal, i.e. grinding...
I assume by "reforging" you meant metallurgical process, not mechanical reshape. I doubt the smiths used metallurgical reforge of broken blades much for the above reason.

No, that was not my gurage on eBay. That was another Alex's:-)

spiral · 21st April 2010, 08:19 PM

Thanks Alex for yours thoughts, The blade is heavily scrached which I think hides much of the pattern in the photos which seems quite swirly to me in hand reflected in sunlight? But Time will tell.

Havent found my 16X loupe yet, not where I thought it was.

But in the meantime herse a little cleanup around what I presumed is the top of a cartouche.

The crazed area in front of that looks like reforging to me or is perhaps just overheating ? But together whith the remains of a cartouche I still think reforging is likley.

As for a smiths reasons why its conjecture, but forging is always better than stock removal for quality of structure, & often speeds up the process as well I would say from seeing how fast a kukri is forged out of a rough billet in Nepal.

Pity the gurade wasnt yours, I think its its the nicest one Ive ever seen!

Spiral

ALEX · 21st April 2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

... forging is always better than stock removal for quality of structure, & often speeds up the process ...Spiral

Not with wootz. Forging wootz is very complex process, Re-forging it even more so. It's not only structure, but the pattern which is in stake, and when it comes to pattern preservation - stock removal is absolutely the best and easiest method.

spiral · 21st April 2010, 10:10 PM

Which in that case is presumably why the crazed area in front of the gold cartouche tip, is as it is?

Spiral

21st April 2010, 08:19 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thanks Alex for yours thoughts, The blade is heavily scrached which I think hides much of the pattern in the photos which seems quite swirly to me in hand reflected in sunlight? But Time will tell. Havent found my 16X loupe yet, not where I thought it was. But in the meantime herse a little cleanup around what I presumed is the top of a cartouche. The crazed area in front of that looks like reforging to me or is perhaps just overheating ? But together whith the remains of a cartouche I still think reforging is likley. As for a smiths reasons why its conjecture, but forging is always better than stock removal for quality of structure, & often speeds up the process as well I would say from seeing how fast a kukri is forged out of a rough billet in Nepal. Pity the gurade wasnt yours, I think its its the nicest one Ive ever seen! Spiral

21st April 2010, 10:10 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Which in that case is presumably why the crazed area in front of the gold cartouche tip, is as it is? Spiral