|  | 
|  | 
|  15th April 2010, 02:56 PM | #1 | 
| Member Join Date: May 2006 
					Posts: 7,085
				 |   
			
			Thank you for this clarification, Stekemest. So, in the original, it is possible to see the ganja and the assymetric base of the blade? | 
|   |   | 
|  15th April 2010, 03:23 PM | #2 | 
| Member Join Date: Jun 2009 
					Posts: 1,295
				 |   
			
			Very probably I see there just what I used to see all the time I know this picture. I thought, it were possible to see a difference between sirah cecak and buntut cecak, also a big pejetan (and wavy gonjo). | 
|   |   | 
|  15th April 2010, 03:29 PM | #3 | 
| Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany 
					Posts: 183
				 |   
			
			Yes. This part is quite dark though, and it is hard to see all the details. I can try to get a better picture of this part. The painting can be seen in the Städel Museum in Frankfurt. If anyone intends to go there, send me a message.   | 
|   |   | 
|  15th April 2010, 03:54 PM | #4 | 
| Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 
					Posts: 6,376
				 |   
			
			Here
		 | 
|   |   | 
|  15th April 2010, 05:07 PM | #5 | 
| Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia 
					Posts: 7,250
				 |   
			
			Yes, i think this is clearly a keris and i hope that from the enlargements made you see this as well Alan. From the look of what i can see of the hilt i think it's a fair bet that it is the same keris Rembrandt depicts in this painting. From what i know he owned a couple of examples which he used as models for his paintings.
		 | 
|   |   | 
|  15th April 2010, 05:14 PM | #6 | 
| Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia 
					Posts: 7,250
				 |   
			
			Here is another Rembrandt, a self-portrait, which is most commonly titles "Self-Portrait as an Oriental Pontentate With A Kris". Here we see an asymmetric blade and a rather vague Kacang Kembang, but the blade itself is a very unusal one and i have a feeling that some artistic license was taken here to create a fanasty keris based upon examples he had or had seen.      | 
|   |   | 
|  15th April 2010, 05:18 PM | #7 | 
| Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 
					Posts: 6,376
				 |   
			
			Okay, this begs the question ; In the blinding of Sampson what does the use of a keris represent ? In what light was the keris viewed by European culture in that time ? | 
|   |   | 
|  15th April 2010, 05:35 PM | #8 | 
| Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia 
					Posts: 7,250
				 |   
			
			Good question Rick. It is, after all, the blade that does the "evil" deed of blinding him. I don't know if this will look any clearer, but i found this better than average version for clarity and blew it up as much as i dared. I am sure that the original color is off, but hopefully it will clearly show this to be a keris. | 
|   |   | 
|  15th April 2010, 06:04 PM | #9 | 
| Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a 
					Posts: 991
				 |  BANTEN sheath? 
			
			Was the sheath Banten "sandang walikat"? If yes, then Cirebonese "buta hilt" would match with Bantenese walikat.... Just guessing. For comparison, (picture) is Bantenese warangka but not sandang walikat. Banten warangka, could seem as if symetrical, although the blade inside doesn't need to be symetrical. Just one cent opinion... GANJAWULUNG | 
|   |   | 
|  15th April 2010, 06:31 PM | #10 | |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2009 
					Posts: 1,295
				 |   Quote: 
 I guess, becouse such situations, very quick and probably unexpected use of keris is beying connected with the fierce character of the javanese and bugis (Careri in 1695 says, orang laut draw their "crisis" out of the sheaths for the slightest reason), and has become also character associated with keris. There is also one european epigraph on a sheath of a keris from Dresden collection, 17.cent., which says: "...brings fortune or misfortune". So some of the "keris mythology" were probably also evident to the europeans. Interesting are the mentions of figural keris hilts, as depictions of devil (Levinium Hulsius, 1606). | |
|   |   | 
|  | 
| 
 | 
 |