Sumatra Keris tourist or not?

Henk · 14th April 2010, 09:44 PM

David, Alan,

I will try to respond further on this subject.

David, accept my apoligies, english is not my native language. I do understand english rather well, but sometimes winks and phrases I simply cann't understand as the joke they are made for. Just like we can make winks with our Dutch language, which aren't understood by non native speakers.
The keris you show from the archives are made with much more quality than the soldier keris. I do own similar maduran keris which i wouldn't qualify as soldier bring back keris, but more as maduran keris. But then to return to your question, were they made for madurans? I really cann't give you the answer. But looking at these keris I have an example with a carved wrongko and hilt of which i can imagine a maduran would have been proud to wear it.
I think however and it is a carefull guess these appearance of the maduran keris came up in the 40ties or 50ties of the previous century.

Then we come to the next point.
Alan, although i'm not an expert on woodspecies i understand clearly what you mean and how the quality or hardness of the wood gives the results of carving.
The wood of the maduran keris and which David showed us from the archives is of a kind usually used for keris sheats.

The wood of the soldier keris shown in the thread, both Chregu's and Ricks, i always compare with the wood of a firtree. Wood of the firtree is here in Holland low quality wood.

I hope this answer made clear what i ment.

A. G. Maisey · 15th April 2010, 12:26 AM

Thanks for persevering with this Henk.

I won't make any further comment of the idea of wood "quality", as the difference in our perceptions, and possibly differences in language could see us talking forever.

As to dating, yes, I think the carved styles probably did begin to proliferate in about the middle of the 19th century. But really, we're kidding ourselves to presume to put any date on any of the dress styles, simply because there is very little reliable evidence upon which to base our guess.

kulbuntet · 17th April 2010, 12:10 AM

Other example of antique tourist/knil soldier keris. The blad is much older than the scabard.

kulbuntet · 17th April 2010, 12:18 AM

I do understand what Henk is trying to say. Sometimes i think that holland have more keris than wooden shoes.

Most of them are lower quality wood. Type of woord is light. Some times well cut some times not well cut. Some times harder wood, lesser cut quality. And very sometimes hard wood good/beter cut quality.

It not all time thes types of scabard were made only for Knil Soldiers that went back to holland. I have seen photo's of Maduran soldiers in KNIL army. Wearing those types of keris. I find manny of those keris having realy old baldes inside of them. Some of them bought by Indoneisans from Javaneese the give them sheath "upgrade" to be sold to dutch, for higher price. Iff there is realation between Islaam and getting rid of their old kerisses, i dont know.

14th April 2010, 09:44 PM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	David, Alan, I will try to respond further on this subject. David, accept my apoligies, english is not my native language. I do understand english rather well, but sometimes winks and phrases I simply cann't understand as the joke they are made for. Just like we can make winks with our Dutch language, which aren't understood by non native speakers. The keris you show from the archives are made with much more quality than the soldier keris. I do own similar maduran keris which i wouldn't qualify as soldier bring back keris, but more as maduran keris. But then to return to your question, were they made for madurans? I really cann't give you the answer. But looking at these keris I have an example with a carved wrongko and hilt of which i can imagine a maduran would have been proud to wear it. I think however and it is a carefull guess these appearance of the maduran keris came up in the 40ties or 50ties of the previous century. Then we come to the next point. Alan, although i'm not an expert on woodspecies i understand clearly what you mean and how the quality or hardness of the wood gives the results of carving. The wood of the maduran keris and which David showed us from the archives is of a kind usually used for keris sheats. The wood of the soldier keris shown in the thread, both Chregu's and Ricks, i always compare with the wood of a firtree. Wood of the firtree is here in Holland low quality wood. I hope this answer made clear what i ment.

15th April 2010, 12:26 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Thanks for persevering with this Henk. I won't make any further comment of the idea of wood "quality", as the difference in our perceptions, and possibly differences in language could see us talking forever. As to dating, yes, I think the carved styles probably did begin to proliferate in about the middle of the 19th century. But really, we're kidding ourselves to presume to put any date on any of the dress styles, simply because there is very little reliable evidence upon which to base our guess.

17th April 2010, 12:10 AM	#3
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Other example of antique tourist/knil soldier keris. The blad is much older than the scabard.

17th April 2010, 12:18 AM	#4
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	I do understand what Henk is trying to say. Sometimes i think that holland have more keris than wooden shoes. Most of them are lower quality wood. Type of woord is light. Some times well cut some times not well cut. Some times harder wood, lesser cut quality. And very sometimes hard wood good/beter cut quality. It not all time thes types of scabard were made only for Knil Soldiers that went back to holland. I have seen photo's of Maduran soldiers in KNIL army. Wearing those types of keris. I find manny of those keris having realy old baldes inside of them. Some of them bought by Indoneisans from Javaneese the give them sheath "upgrade" to be sold to dutch, for higher price. Iff there is realation between Islaam and getting rid of their old kerisses, i dont know.