Posted on request: ivory,silver & twistcore!

Gavin Nugent · 11th April 2010, 11:14 AM

Hi Maurice,

What ever the origins this is certainly a very very very rare example and I would suspect very very very desirable, to find two Elephants and twistcore, silver and ivory is something I would say could be unique.

Thank you for Sharing.

Gav

Maurice · 11th April 2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Maurice,

What ever the origins this is certainly a very very very rare example and I would suspect very very very desirable, to find two Elephants and twistcore, silver and ivory is something I would say could be unique.

Thank you for Sharing.

Gav

LOL, yes Gav, you are right!
Thank you very much!
Besides that it is very attractive, it is always a good thing to try to nail down the origin.

Morris ;-)

David · 11th April 2010, 05:41 PM

Well Maurice, you know where i stand on this since i was the one to encourage you post it here. José has picked up on some of the same things that swing me towards an Indonesian Sundang, namely the reprousse work which doesn't look Moro to me and the double kembang kacang which can be found on an Indonesian Dhapur. I will be interested to see what other opinions come in.
It certainly is an oddity though and a really nice find.

Maurice · 13th April 2010, 07:54 AM

Yes I know your vision about it David. Thanks for responding.
It seems that more people share your vision (according the many emails I receive about this piece).

The first thing that came in my mind when I saw this piece was that it could be from Borneo.
I didn't mention it here on the forum to see if more people came up with it.
I only did mention that to another forumite in a privat email and to the friend I got it from when I gave my first comment on it.
Yesterday I got an email from another friendcollector who said in an email that it could be Borneo (no, not dayak ;-) )?

Nobody has more suggestions or philosophies on this one?
I can't hardly believe it!

ThePepperSkull · 13th April 2010, 08:10 AM

just curious: Where in Indonesia did they produce sundang? This is a very interesting revelation, as I thought aside from Mindanao/sulu/borneo, the only other regions who produced them would be peninsular malaysia.

Battara · 13th April 2010, 11:03 PM

Well there are/were Moros or Moro influence in Sabah, Borneo.

David · 14th April 2010, 05:06 AM

Yes Maurice, i am also surprised that there aren't more opinions on this piece. Just for comparison look at the reprousse work on the sheath of this sundang which some have also identified as Malay. To my eyes i see a similar floral design that seems quite unlike Moro okir.

You can see the rest of this sword here:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11708

Maurice · 14th April 2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

just curious: Where in Indonesia did they produce sundang? This is a very interesting revelation, as I thought aside from Mindanao/sulu/borneo, the only other regions who produced them would be peninsular malaysia.

That is a good question, anyone can answer this one specific and tell us where to find/read it?
I know that you can add Celebes to your enumeration according van Zonneveld.

Mytribalworld · 14th April 2010, 06:18 PM

Hi,

I don't think you'll find an answer for that. Don't forget that there was a lot of trade so its more likely that Moro blades and Malay blades where traded to Borneo dressed up in Borneo than that they where forgued locally.
All Borneo sunadangs I could find are most of Philippine and Malay origin.
If your keris is from Borneo than I think its somewhere from the direction in or around Brunei.

David · 14th April 2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

That is a good question, anyone can answer this one specific and tell us where to find/read it?
I know that you can add Celebes to your enumeration according van Zonneveld.

Many source cite Sulawesi/Celebes as the actual origin of the Sundang in general. Even if this is incorrect i think it is fair to say that that it can be added to the Peninsula as at least one place of origin for non-Moro Sundangs.

11th April 2010, 11:14 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	NICE Hi Maurice, What ever the origins this is certainly a very very very rare example and I would suspect very very very desirable, to find two Elephants and twistcore, silver and ivory is something I would say could be unique. Thank you for Sharing. Gav

14th April 2010, 05:06 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Yes Maurice, i am also surprised that there aren't more opinions on this piece. Just for comparison look at the reprousse work on the sheath of this sundang which some have also identified as Malay. To my eyes i see a similar floral design that seems quite unlike Moro okir. You can see the rest of this sword here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11708 Attached Images

11th April 2010, 05:41 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Well Maurice, you know where i stand on this since i was the one to encourage you post it here. José has picked up on some of the same things that swing me towards an Indonesian Sundang, namely the reprousse work which doesn't look Moro to me and the double kembang kacang which can be found on an Indonesian Dhapur. I will be interested to see what other opinions come in. It certainly is an oddity though and a really nice find.

13th April 2010, 07:54 AM	#4
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Yes I know your vision about it David. Thanks for responding. It seems that more people share your vision (according the many emails I receive about this piece). The first thing that came in my mind when I saw this piece was that it could be from Borneo. I didn't mention it here on the forum to see if more people came up with it. I only did mention that to another forumite in a privat email and to the friend I got it from when I gave my first comment on it. Yesterday I got an email from another friendcollector who said in an email that it could be Borneo (no, not dayak ;-) )? Nobody has more suggestions or philosophies on this one? I can't hardly believe it!

13th April 2010, 08:10 AM	#5
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	just curious: Where in Indonesia did they produce sundang? This is a very interesting revelation, as I thought aside from Mindanao/sulu/borneo, the only other regions who produced them would be peninsular malaysia.

13th April 2010, 11:03 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Well there are/were Moros or Moro influence in Sabah, Borneo.

14th April 2010, 06:18 PM	#9
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	Hi, I don't think you'll find an answer for that. Don't forget that there was a lot of trade so its more likely that Moro blades and Malay blades where traded to Borneo dressed up in Borneo than that they where forgued locally. All Borneo sunadangs I could find are most of Philippine and Malay origin. If your keris is from Borneo than I think its somewhere from the direction in or around Brunei.