Kalis: Origin of Minadanaon Kris

[baganing_balyan]

Originally Posted by David

These are interesting idea, but if you can't back them up with actual reference they are merely unproven theories. Do you have any references to back up what you say? Do you know, for instance that the use of "parang curiga" as a term in batik existed in the early days of keris when it was (at least in some accounts) referred to as curiga? Or is this batik term merely a more recent co-opting of the word curiga because it resembles an aspect of the keris? You have yet to provide any proof that keris is the original name for this blade. Can you direct us to any pre-anglicized literature that supports your position?
Certainly it would be incorrect to say sundang sword. It is just like saying sword sword. But in the case of Indonesian keris i would say that in most cases i would not refer to it as a keris sword. Mostly they are daggers, not really long enough to be considered swords.
BTW, as for origins, i doubt that you will find many people here who believe that the keris is originally an Islamic weapon. It is fairly common knowledge in these parts that it's origins are Javanese, with influences of an Indian nature. The keris developed when Jawa was a Hindu kingdom.

I would either be a genius or a clairvoyant if i don't base my ideas on something. But that's not the case. On curiga, for instance, Jan Gonda wrote about the etymology of the word. I just don't find it important to quote him. I would rather go directly to my source-- sanskrit word etymology. Everyone who reads sanskrit knows that churika is a sanskrit for knife or dagger. even if curiga predated keris, it doesn't mean that it was a name for a blade. it was nothing but a javanese word for a knife or dagger.

As i said in my earlier post, I want my writings to be seminal ideas hoping that those who have access to related materials and resources for research can seriously look into my ideas.

for example: My mind tells me that keris came from kilich (turkish) and keras developed from keris but I have limited materials on ottoman influences in southeast asia.

Although I know that the way malay words with foreign influences evolved used the pattern of foreign word first, then literal meaning in local language, and then abstract meaning that still exists today.

kilich (sword in turkish) - kilis/Keris (sword or dagger) - keras (sharp or violent)

churika (knife in Sanskrit) - curika/curiga (knife) - curiga (suspicious)

I still believe that it's possible but I am not sure because I have no materials to prove that keris is from kilich. I hope though that serious keris researcher would look into the turkish/ottoman involvement in the evolution of keris.

The timeline also supports my belief. Late 1300's was the beginning of the ottoman and Islamic expansion. A star beside a crescent was used by the ottomans as image of Islam and adopted by muslims in southeast asia. late 1500's creese or kris entered the english dictionary.

I just don't assume when my sources are weak.