Kalis: Origin of Minadanaon Kris

A. G. Maisey · 26th June 2008, 05:31 AM

This pursuit of playing with words almost seems to qualify as the ultimate "name game"---which can be fun, and applied in a structured way can possibly produce some enlightening results.However, rather than just haphazardly throw words around, it would be more beneficial if the words were given provenance by naming the language and period from which the word is taken.

For instance baganing tells us that the word "danganan" means "destruction". Perhaps it does in some language, but in Javanese it means "handle".

In Old Javanese, that is the form of Javanese that was in widespread use prior to reforms of the House of Mataram beginning in the 16th-17th centuries, the word "keris" did exist, as also did the word "curiga", however, the word "keras" seems not to appear in Old Javanese, nor does the word "dhuwung", which is Krama (high level) Javanese for "keris". This, of course, is to be expected, as the heirarchical levels of the Javanese language did not really develop until after the House of Mataram set out upon the path of attempting to establish its legitimacy.

barganing, you do have some interesting ideas, but truly, you need to apply some discipline to the structuring and validation of your ideas. I accept that you have already carried out some research, but you need to document that research, and then to structure your arguments in a logical fashion.

Please continue with what you are doing, but please continue in a way that will allow us to accept what you write.

ward · 26th June 2008, 06:37 AM

Not my area but at least baganing is thinking outside the box here.
By the way big pomels on yatagans is a late development earliest I saw was 18 century. Turkish ones if you can call it that from 16-17 century are small with no ears at all theres some in Topkapi museum so not sure how that influnced the Moro kris like you are saying. Anyway welcome

Ward

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26th June 2008, 05:31 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	This pursuit of playing with words almost seems to qualify as the ultimate "name game"---which can be fun, and applied in a structured way can possibly produce some enlightening results.However, rather than just haphazardly throw words around, it would be more beneficial if the words were given provenance by naming the language and period from which the word is taken. For instance baganing tells us that the word "danganan" means "destruction". Perhaps it does in some language, but in Javanese it means "handle". In Old Javanese, that is the form of Javanese that was in widespread use prior to reforms of the House of Mataram beginning in the 16th-17th centuries, the word "keris" did exist, as also did the word "curiga", however, the word "keras" seems not to appear in Old Javanese, nor does the word "dhuwung", which is Krama (high level) Javanese for "keris". This, of course, is to be expected, as the heirarchical levels of the Javanese language did not really develop until after the House of Mataram set out upon the path of attempting to establish its legitimacy. barganing, you do have some interesting ideas, but truly, you need to apply some discipline to the structuring and validation of your ideas. I accept that you have already carried out some research, but you need to document that research, and then to structure your arguments in a logical fashion. Please continue with what you are doing, but please continue in a way that will allow us to accept what you write.

26th June 2008, 06:37 AM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Not my area but at least baganing is thinking outside the box here. By the way big pomels on yatagans is a late development earliest I saw was 18 century. Turkish ones if you can call it that from 16-17 century are small with no ears at all theres some in Topkapi museum so not sure how that influnced the Moro kris like you are saying. Anyway welcome Ward