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#1 |
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This axe head is of the form (regarded as French in style) that Nuemann ("Swords and Blades of the American Revolution", 1973, example 89a, p.274) terms a 'ROUND POLL CAMP AXE'. It is 8.25" in height, 4" wide and weighs 1.9 lbs. with long flaring half axe blade.
The markings (not yet identified) are in the manner of most of these type axes termed 'hache de traite' , which loosely means 'trade hatchet' in French. It is probably blacksmith (ID pending) made in Canadian or American northeast regions (Quebec was one possibility) and possibly traded alongside the wares of the Hudson Bay Company. These were used by frontiersmen, trappers, 'mountain men' throughout these regions and well into America,.....New York, Ohio, Illinois, Missouri, where they were also well known in many American Indian tribes, particularly those of the Iroquois confederation. Many of this form, but slightly smaller (of same weight) appear in Seneca grave sites in New York areas. The Seneca were the most warlike of the Iroquois tribes, and like most of these tribes, their most prized possessions were buried with them...these kinds of axes a most common case. This particular axe I just located in Utah, and I am thinking if its provenance was local (it was from an individual who was not aware of details) it very likely came with Mormon settlers who of course originated in the regions previously noted, and were accompanied by frontiersmen. I believe it is likely mid to third quarter 18th c. (there were changes in the eye shape etc c.1800) . While this is an 'axe', which typically denotes a tool for utility, these were of course also used as weapons, and as per the term called in Indian parlance (loosely ) deemed a 'tomahawk as such. It should be noted that typically the tomahawk genre (pipe, spike, halberd etc) is commonly slightly smaller and lighter, but these and 'belt axes' varied widely in forms and size. The term 'hatchet' was a broadly used term used collectively for axes and not distinctly applied. There are cases where these axes have been called 'squaw' axes ( the women typically gathered wood etc in Indian camps) but this term is highly frowned upon by Native Americans as the common use of these as weapons naturally would negate such term. I wanted to share what I have discovered in research on this piece this week as these types of weapons are not often discussed here, and I am hoping to bring in others with like interests, and of course examples. As always, I welcome comments and corrections (this area is new to me)! I am also hoping that someone might have seen this apparently four petal flower (clover?) deeply stamped as a mark; and the deep initials LMVL on opposite face . |
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#2 |
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Wow, Jim! This is an incredible early round poll axe, as you so mentioned. I've seen so many variations of the stamp on these and most are, to my understanding, lost to time. Contrary to some sources, although these were indeed traded to Native Americans, they were also used by the fur traders themselves as well as scouts, soldiers, frontiersmen, etc. These types preceded the later hammer polls and pipe tomahawks. They were absolutely used as both a tool and a weapon. Looking upon the early axe forms, one sees a familiar pattern of starting out as weapon, then weapon-tool and eventually tool only into the latter periods. Perhaps there is someone out there that recognizes this petal stamp? I'm not at home, but I'll try to look at some of my sources when I can.
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#3 |
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Nice axe Jim.
I have seen a boarding axe with a similar 4-leaf clover stamp said to be Irish in origin but have never been able to confirm that. In Henry Kauffman's 'American Axes' he shows this example and states 'trade axe excavated in NY state and bearing the lobed mark found on a number of trade axes'. But there is no further information other than that. I think that, if the maker was sophisticated enough to have a 'clover' stamp for repeated use, then he would also have had letter stamps or a name stamp. So the crude letters are probably added later and more likely indicate a personal possession. Are there any signs of a seam in way or the blade within the eye that would indicate its construction? It seems a little too even to be pure hand made so I'm thinking maybe early 19th when blacksmiths were using water or steam driven power hammers. Last edited by CutlassCollector; 23rd September 2023 at 10:29 AM. Reason: spelling |
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#4 |
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Thank you CC for the great input! It seems the clover notion is pretty viable and of course Irish association seems likely for obvious reasons. However the other option is the Dutch 'kleeblatt', which is a four leaf clover that seems to commonly occur on the quillon terminals of various swords. It has never been clear what this means, but it is a distinct consistency which seems to have been present in 17th into 18th c.
As the Dutch were of course prevalent in northeast America, especially New York, this presents interesting possibilities. As the profile of this axe head seems to be pretty well visually a match for the example in Nuemann and several other references as noted, that was pretty much my benchmark. While the period broadly suggests 1700-1800 naturally those finite numbers are pretty negotiable, and your suggestion of early 19th seems of course pretty plausible. As I note, Im pretty new to this field, so I cant speak with any particular authority, but as far as construction, in the top view a seam extends along the blade which I thought would concur with the fold over construction method. I had thought the type of power hammers you describe were as early as 17th c. and were well known in Solingen, but not sure how much in use in the colonies as yet pretty remote. The crudely applied letters, personal initials were typically two, or at best three....but four...I thought must be an acronym for some organization or firm. Whatever the case, the configuration in placement seems correct for the practice. |
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#5 |
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Hello folks! I was looking at H & K's tomahawk book and did see an early Dutch example with a 'flower' marking, but it had 7 petals. Still very similar...
CC, you bring up a good point as to this possibly being an early triphammer cast head as the lines are so clean. In the early 19th, these patterns were still being used and being that Jim picked it up west of the Rockies, this was exactly when the fur trade went into high gear after the Louisiana Purchase. The Astoria Fur Company and Manuel Lisa's Missouri Fur Trade Company were vying for the trade at this time. If only this piece could talk, imagine the stories! |
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Interesting that you mention the Dutch Jim; my mind went to the Dutch Walloon swords.
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#7 |
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#8 |
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Just browsing through Hothem (p.84) and a round eye example remarkably similar is shown as c. 1750 and with a six petal flower in this manner in same blade location, noting probable Austrian origin (no further explanation, however Seven Years War comes to mind).
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#9 |
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Hello, I'm a Brit & have lived in Spain since 95, I've have had an interest in edged tools for a long time, I have a large collection of hatchets from this & surrounding counties.
I'd say the example you have originated in Spain or Portugal, possibly France & is carbon steel, I imagine 100 years old maximum, production line produced not blacksmith , the eye is the giveaway to it being cast not "wrap" forged. They are pretty common here in these three countries just like your example. It's a hatchet, not a tomahawk, not a weapon (thought you are free to use it as you wish ![]() I have many examples thought I can't shed light on your particular marking (the letters are owners initials), there were hundreds of different ones. I also have older wrought iron hatchets that were produced in the Basque region of Spain where ore was mined, a big industry evolved making heads that were transported across "the pond" to be used for trading, loose heads packed in barrels. Some images. (I can upload many more images, thought these are farm/smallholder tools not weapons ). Showing various cast & wrought examples, I can upload more of my examples if anyone is interested, if it's not too far off topic. Thanks. |
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#10 |
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I would love more images! More resources are always better. The ax as a weapon or tool question comes up regularly on the forum. My personal opinion is that if you go back to the period of flintlocks in North America is that the ax as a tool or weapon was interchangeable. Though I believe most were primarily tools from what I can tell.
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#11 |
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I can post some more images, I'll sort some out.
A screwdriver or house brick can be a weapon. These hatchets were tools in the countries they were manufactured in the period they were made. I'll find some images of what's still being produced. It's not in the usual use of language here (UK, Spain) to refer to anything as a weapon in everyday language, things are called by their names, eg axe, hatchet, knife. Talking about a historical "weapon" yes, but the O.Ps example isn't historical, they are still being used. |
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They were indeed tools back in Europe, but here in the New World, transported by ships in the thousands to be used on the frontier and traded to the Native Americans, I can assure you they were used as both. Many trade axes of the round poll type still turn up as Indian weapons, complete with brass tack decorations, beadwork, wirework, etc. Hartzler's tomahawk book shows numerous examples. There is a pattern of evolution of the axe from weapon to weapon/tool to finally only as a tool in the latter (19th) century in the states. Ship's boarding axes are another classic example. They were both a tool and a weapon, used by boarding parties to storm the deck (well documented, BTW) and as a handy weapon in a pinch. In later years (mid-19th c) they became strictly a fire tool, patterning the first fire aces that were to follow.
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#13 |
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Thank you guys for all these responses!
C4RL, I very much appreciate your valuable insights on this, and of course you are well situated being in Spain and in this collecting field to have unique expertise in these forms of 'hatchet'. As I mentioned earlier, I am entirely a novice as far as these 'items' (hatchet, axe, tomahawk, tool,weapon etc.) and it is important to me to have all views in discussion of them to better evaluate the most likely origin of the example In have posted. In most of my reading on these hatchets, it does seem well noted that the Basque areas of Northern Spain were key to metalwork from local iron resources which included tools, weapons and iron items. The iron shackles with bar and lock used to hold prisoners and unfortunately slaves were known as 'bilbo's, referring to the city and port of Bilbao where iron products were produced and often exported. The well known Spanish arming swords of the 18th century often hilted there also gave them the colloquial term 'bilbo' (in English) due to these origins. In research on the Spanish colonial 'espada ancha', I discovered that these familiar short swords were actually termed 'machete' in Spanish and in the periods of their development and use in the Spanish colonial frontiers. These shorter swords with typically frontier blacksmith forged blades, while of course in the form of that 'weapon' actually were more commonly used as a 'tool' for brushing trails, chopping vegetation much as the modern machete is. On the vessels coming to the New World, the hangers/cutlasses used aboard these ships were the prototypes for the espada ancha/machete. It seems the 'cutlass' term was more maritime in colloquial application, while the same weapons ashore used inn utilitarian functions were termed 'machete', despite the 'hanger' term which seems more military oriented. On these vessels, as noted, were often barrels full of axe/hatchet heads for colonial use and trade, as well of course as being used aboard by the sailors and men on these vessels for the purposes required. Boarding axes, while used as weapons, were most commonly employed in the mundane chores that were always at hand in the daily functions at sea, and often ashore, just like the 'cutlasses'. In colonial New Spain, it is well known that Basques, and their wares were profoundly present . These 'hatchets/axes' were thoroughly ubiquitous from the arrival ports and entrepots and the trade networks, where the Basque term became quite collectively used to describe the similar forms. Having said all this, it does seem that the general form of my axe, in round poll character, retains what appears to be a quite traditional type of 'hatchet/camp axe etc.' and of course from a long tradition of these from Basque regions. From what I have understood, the 'round' eye gave way to the more 'tear drop?' shaped type later, so if I understand correctly, this style was still being produced in the 20th century in Spain? (100 years ago was of course 1920s). So the 'clean' lines etc. of my example could not have been produced in the profoundly skilled and highly regarded iron working centers in Basque country in the earlier period noted (early to mid 19th c.)? The reason I brought up the case of the machete/cutlass/hanger etc. is to point out that the specious debate of tool vs. weapon is, as well noted, pretty well moot, as virtually most of these can be used (and were) interchangeably. Straining the matter further is the term 'tomahawk' , which is again, broadly applied to various forms of these smaller (than woodsman axes) axes used as weapons, in the American Indian manner......which of course lends to the notably strained 'name game'. Shakespeare said it best, ..a rose by any other name....is still a rose'. ![]() As always, my entries become longer than intended, but I wanted to express my take on these aspects not to dispute anything in particular, but to encourage further discussion on these 'axe' type forms and recognizing the character in proper age identifying. Thanks again to all here for these great responses! The more I learn here (thanks to you guys) the more intrigued I become in this field! Oh Oh!! ![]() |
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#14 |
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If one one wants to take a deep dive into old hatchets and tomahawks (and treacherous look-a-likes and fakes thereof) might I recommend https://www.furtradetomahawks.com/.
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#15 |
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To keep my reply simple & clarify, the hatchet in question is undoubtedly made completely from carbon steel, if it were to be soaked in any etchant it would show a light uniform grey steel colour all over because it's cast with around an inch along the cutting edge that'll be much darker grey where it's been hardened. It's a 20th century factory head.
Quite a lot like it in this area alone (southern Spain), many still in use. Below, the first two images are more in line with older heads, these are wraps with a small carbon steel bit welded in. Third & fourth image a hatchet that's a wrap with a filler piece. Fifth, a beautiful example of a wrought iron wrap with a welded in carbon steel bit fresh out of etchant (before you cry "sacrilege" for etching something so old....I can explain). Six & seven, huge old axe heads, I put these here simply as an example of what some might describe (& possibly try to sell..) as executioners axes, or again weapons. They are in fact just (lovely) old French wood axes, nothing more! Last edited by C4RL; 7th October 2023 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Clarification & removed some of my possibly inaccurate assumptions! |
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#16 |
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Reading through this excellent thread Jim one issue springs to mind.
The final chapter in the Addenda of my book on the Shotley Bridge swordmakers is about the Saugus Ironworks. It gains entry into my book because of the involvement of the Vintons: Swedish metalworkers and miners who were active in the Shotley Bridge area from around 1600. They were a big family and are on record as immigrants to Massachusetts and active in the "Iron works at Lynn", later known as Hammersmith (a most aposite title, yes?) about 1646 to 1670. There is even a town named after them: although the residents don't know where their name came from. What made Hammersmith special was that it was the first site to successfully implement the full range of iron production and refinement at one facility, producing cast iron, refined bars, as well as nails. Also active there was Joseph Jenkes of Hounslow fame. On the tailrace of the Saugus blast furnace, Joseph Jenks established a mill for the making of Sithes (sic), saw blades, and other edge tools for which he was granted a Massachusetts patent in 1646: probably one of the first patents ever issued in the colonies. Jenks brought his millwright and smithing skills to the banks of the Saugus River where he forged, hardened, and tempered iron and steel into saw blades and axes. Jenks Jr., established a forge shop and sawmill on the Blackstone River in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. Iron tool manufacturing continued within this branch of the Jenks family well into the nineteenth century. If you are looking for an early source of axe heads then this is a likely suspect. |
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#17 |
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These are old images hence the photobucket stamps as I cannot find the originals.
The first image is of three hatchets that belong to an elderly gentleman I know, they are hung on his garage wall and are especially nice because they belonged to his father-in-law & were used up until he finished working. They are all 20th century carbon steel cast heads despite looking centuries old. I can & will take new photos of these when I next see him & ask about a time frame. (Going a bit far off topic the first time I spotted them I told my friend quite confidently "the handle on the big one is upside-down", we tapped the handle out as they are all "slip through fit" & found it didn't fit the non round eye the other way up" it was only when used in an imaginary "pruning an overhead olive tree branch" air swing that it made sense & I had to eat my words!..... All home made handles, obviously to suit a purpose). The next photo is what at first glance could look like two old blacksmith made "wrap" forged heads? In fact only the top one is a blacksmith made wrap & old, the lower two are later cast carbon steel heads, the smallest one still being available to buy new. I think most of the axe images I've posted can be found by shape in reference books, drawings & paintings but many of these (shape) heads were made up until fairly recently & some similar shapes are still being manufactured. The way they were made & the steel they are made from are the best indicators of age. |
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#18 |
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Regarding the terminology,
"...as you look at the many shapes and sizes of the material called 'tomahawk'it becomes apparent that we cannot separate items into 'tool' or 'weapon' categories". p.1 "Tomahawks Illustrated" , Robert Kuck, 1977. "...Indians must have realized the possibilities of the iron hatchet, not only ad a camp tool but a weapon as well, so the very earliest iron tomahawks were simply trade hatchets used in warfare". Kuck, op.cit. p.5 I am puzzled by the consternation over the character of the metal in this axe head being carbon steel suggesting it cannot be over 100 years old. While not a metallurgist, it does seem that 'cast steel' has been around since 1730s in England (Im sure the schooling on the differences between cast steel and carbon steel will follow). In my OP, the example of 'ROUND POLL CAMP AXE' 1700-1800 is described as French, and is virtually identical to mine, the measurements and weight the same as well as the features and shape. So it would seem mine was cast perhaps from a mold of one of these early axes? but this could not have been achieved in the 1800s? Cast steel was being used for cutlery and chisels by late 18th c. but not for axes? The four petal stamped mark is in the manner and position on head in accord with these typically so marked, and these marks are not deemed to any particular maker nor guild etc., the meaning remains unknown. In most axes in North American context there seems to be only about 32 consistently seen. I have been under the impression that by 20th century most tools etc. typically had the maker or firm name impressed. The round eye seems more to older axe head styles from what I have read. The four letter initials do not seem like a persons initials, more like an acronym for a group, firm, much as balemarks on company property. |
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#19 |
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Can I ask when you say the "Round poll camp axe" 1700~1800 is virtually identical to your example, what is different?
When I say carbon steel I understand that can be nearly anything, what I mean is your hatchet's steel looks quite refined & uniform, it doesn't look like wrought or a welded bit & it doesn't look particularly old. I suspect it's a single piece of hardenable steel which would make it more recent if that is the case. The first image I posted shows three hatchets I picked up in Portugal, it's a very popular pattern there with many (possibly hundreds) of different stamps. I've seen many examples & yours looks identical to that style & in very good condition. All these hatchets have round eyes, that isn't in the slightest bit rare amongst "slip fit" handles of many styles. The initials look like they have been stamped using a cold chisel one line at a time, the sort of thing someone does to mark their initials. Of course this is just my opinion, it could simply be coincidence that that these hatchet's look alike & I could be completely wrong, I'm no expert. Could you post the reference "Round poll camp axe", I'd be interested to see it. |
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#20 | |
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In the 18th and early 19th centuries, materials to colonial regions, later America and Mexico, came in the trade vessels, and included were barrels of these kinds of axe heads (or 'hatchets' if you will). As mentioned, these characteristic deep stamped marks (the clover in this case) seem to have been some sort of bale mark rather than to any maker or guild. While no documentation exists that would identify the probable users of specific of these marks, there does appear to be consistency in the manner and location of placement on the axe head. When I say my example is 'virtually' identical to the 'round poll camp axe' shown in Neumann (1973), what I mean is that it is considered prudent not to make adamant assertions that will invariably be contested in the inevitable micro-examinations of others particularly 'experts'. As I noted in my OP, I am by no means any sort of authority on these, but I am intent in research and open to suggestions in proper identification as always. While you clearly have more experience in this field, I appreciate you noting that in these kinds of situations, there are always exceptions and no assessment is necessarily absolute. With my use of the Neumann example, I have had the honor of personal discussions with him on the weaponry included in his venerable reference, and while we did not discuss axes, his expertise overall on the arms we did focus on was entirely beyond reproach, I have never seen any weapon description from his book questioned, so I feel confident his identification is correct. My example is again, virtually, identical...its dimensions in accord with the Nuemann example as the appearance....the date range 1700-1800. So why would this 'old' form of camp axe (hatchet, whatever) still be produced in the 20th century. In analogy, a bit like Ford continuing to build Model A cars in the 1950s in the old way. I am pretty familiar with patination on swords, which is more my field, and this condition is consistent (as far as I can see) with very old examples, especially into the 1700s. The nature of the patination depends on the conditions of the items placement and period in situ. If this had been in the ground, the interior corrosion would have forced outward leading to the surface of an orange effect. While one seam on the bottom of the head remains apparent, no others appear, suggesting some sort of finishing further concealed by darkening of age. |
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#21 |
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The difference in the angle of the edge relative to the eyes in these two axes is interesting. One would have to stand in a different location to fell a tree. Neumann's example might be better for a downward limbing application. In physical conflict this might be important, shrug.
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#22 |
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Firstly an appology as I've never seen such an example, the physical hatchet heads this side of the pond being the only things I have to go off, some being near identical in shape.
And what I've written I'm happy to be proved wrong. Is there any information on the manufacture method of the pictured axe head? Your head still looks more modern to me, or should I say it would be considered that if I picked it up here, in the firt image I posted the three axe heads I bought in a single visit to Portugal (I've seen the same in Spain) I'd consider them older than yours, again only my opinion & very likely methods developed differently in different areas. The shape down the inner edge of your head suggests to me cast or more likely stamped factory production, something I only see on (relatively) more recent heads, I imagine it could have been ground to that shape but why, why the effort? I have some stamped or cast heads not in the same style as this head but show similar shapes around the edges. Now, I know nothing of the U.S manufacturing techniques of the period 1700~1800. Would that period be production line or Blacksmith made ? Maybe I'm wrong. |
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Another thing that occurs to me about your axe, Jim, apart from the clean lines is its lack of use. Many swords may have survived in fairly pristine condition having not seen much action and been well cared for, but this is a common tool that would have been used almost every day. It's owner/owners over a hundred years+ would have used it for kindling wood, dressing game, digging latrine holes, homestead jobs, even, no doubt, used it as a hammer despite the round poll.
I know it's hard to tell from photographs but compared to the other examples, this axe does not looked lived in at all. I believe most axes in the period that you are suggesting were made with wrap around iron with an inserted steel bit - the method is illustrated in Neumann. As C4RL suggests - it could be dated if it was made of iron but unfortunately, unless anyone knows different, it is very hard to tell the difference between iron and steel without lab testing. Grinding produces different colour sparks but obviously that has limitations! |
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#24 |
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Here's a brand new one, posted to show it is a (similar) Portuguese style, though not as common as it once was.
Note the round eye. http://www.verdugo.pt/detalhe/pt/15 Last edited by C4RL; 12th October 2023 at 02:11 AM. |
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#25 |
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Most interesting arguments guys, and I very much appreciate the detailed explanations supporting your observations. As noted this is a learning exercise for me as I have never owned an axe or haft mounted weapon, but of course had some familiarity from various references.
I can truly see what is meant forensically with my example, and as noted, such a tool would most certainly have been used extensively and the resultant damage and wear would be seen clearly. The analogy on swords is well placed and of interest. Most swords, in actuality, saw little to no actual combat use despite the fact that obviously, they were intended for such use. Still, time takes its toll, and the weapon ages in varied degrees depending on the context that it is in. Attached is a British dragoon sword c. 1750 which does not reflect any apparent use, but has aged notably in accord with old iron. The axes of the type being discussed with my example, according to what I have read in the sources I have consulted, arrived in volume in America , often in barrels full. It stands to reason that of this volume of axe heads, they will all find different situations with those who acquire them, and likely the subsequent owners. While obviously, such tools would be readily used on the frontiers, but what if some, never really ended up in a working environment? I just visited the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska, and the original trading post still exists there. In this, I believe there was a degree of merchandise which remained 'in stock' and many items remained in holding thus unused even after the closure of the post. I cannot tell, but what if this axe, even of notable age, was never hafted nor used? Is this not possible? much in the way many swords and weapons simply never saw use. While clearly a tenuous position, it would seem we are considering all possibilities, so I would proffer this to add. Not every weapon or tool experienced arduous use, some virtually none at all. I also question the 'signs of use' observation.....in the photos of examples shown through the thread, which ones display this kind of 'damage' or reflect rugged use? In post #3, CC suggests my axe because of the clean lines etc. does not seem entirely hand made (I agree) but more like something from the 'early nineteenth century' when blacksmiths were using water or steam driven power hammers'. This seems accord with the period I have been suggesting, early 19th c. to mid. Also noted in#3, that a similar boarding axe is known with similar 'clover' but no further info. An example of another similar is shown in Kaufman ("American Axes") with dual floral or radiating petal stamps and noted as excavated in N.Y. state....pretty much the region where the Neuman example I showed was from. Keith (urbanspaceman) also showed an excellent discourse from his outstandingly researched book on the Shotley Bridge sword blade works in England, and how the iron working skills from England had come to America in the 17th century, with that industry flourishing in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. It would seem as he suggests, that production of axe heads with remarkably 'clean' characteristics was quite possible in earlier periods in American locations. This also, in my view puts an axe head with characteristics seen in my example could quite possibly have been from the early 19th c. and perhaps earlier if the type of stamped markings are considered in date range late 18th into 19th c. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 12th October 2023 at 01:13 PM. |
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#26 |
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My best suggestion Jim is to take your head to a Blacksmith / Bladesmith, they will be able to confirm whether it's Blacksmith made or not & put a timeframe on it.
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I've been enjoying reading & learning (too much to take in!) the Fur trade Tomahawks website that Lee linked to in his earlier post.
![]() Near to the bottom of this page mention is made of Portuguese hatchets. https://www.furtradetomahawks.com/fa...pros---17.html |
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