Yataghan inscription for translation

Valjhun · 21st June 2008, 11:11 AM

Hi,

I've bought that yataghan recently. What the inscription says?

Thnak you!

Battara · 21st June 2008, 09:52 PM

May we see pictures of the rest of the yat please?

Valjhun · 22nd June 2008, 02:44 AM

OK, here it is.

Dom · 23rd June 2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

What the inscription says?

translation very poor, due to;
- the quality of inscription seems to be from some one does not known to write properly
- the name mentionned, if any, is not arab, may be; turkish, caucassian, or ??
but unknown for us, succession of letters (2 or 3) without meaning
- only one (1) word is clear " SARAB" either "OWNER"

sorry to do not be more helpfull

maybe some body else

à +

Dom

Valjhun · 18th July 2008, 09:26 AM

Sorry for bringing that thread up again. But I'm interested if someone could figured out what is the meaning of the second word.

Thank you Zifir, for the last complete transaction!

Valjhun · 27th July 2008, 08:53 PM

here it goes a new one. Can you translate please?

Norman McCormick · 27th July 2008, 10:50 PM

Hi,
Date 1805/6 I think, but I stand to be corrected.
Regards,
Norman.

Battara · 28th July 2008, 03:42 AM

Nice Valjhun, real silver inlay not koftgari.....

Valjhun · 28th July 2008, 05:58 PM

Thank you Battara. T

Norman,the year is 1220 hegira, so it would make 1842 in gregorian, I think.

Norman McCormick · 28th July 2008, 06:49 PM

Hi Valjhun,
If you use a Hegira to Gregorian calculator, available on the net, it comes out to 1805/06. 1220 x0.97+622. I'm pretty sure this is correct and it would make the Yataghan older than you thought so good news I hope.
My Regards,
Norman.

ward · 28th July 2008, 09:12 PM

that is 1225 that last number is a khamsa not a 0 sifr

Norman McCormick · 28th July 2008, 09:49 PM

Hi Ward,
Which would make the equivalent Western date ????
Regards,
Norman.

ward · 28th July 2008, 10:20 PM

1810
(A.H. date) x .97 + 622 = (A.D. date) This equation can be off a month but it is close enough for our purposes. Norman your math was correct just wrong symbols for numbers

Norman McCormick · 28th July 2008, 10:33 PM

Hi Ward,
Thank you, I wasn't 100% sure re the arithmetic.
My Regards,
Norman.

Valjhun · 1st August 2008, 08:03 PM

Surely, you are right... i've forgot to multipy witj 0.97

and I thought all the time that I was missing something

Thanks. Can somebody translate the inscription?

Zifir · 11th August 2008, 02:32 PM

Hi,
I was on vacation and could not follow the forum for a while.

The first inscription:

Amel-i İbrahim sahib Ömer Beşe 1225 (work of ibrahim, owner Ömer Beşe - the title "beşe" denoting that he was a janissary- 1810)

I could not figure out the second one yet, I can read some parts of it but cannot give any meaning without reading other parts.

Best,

Valjhun · 21st April 2010, 10:53 PM

Hi,

Sorry for resuscitating an old post, but I've accidetally came along this post today and I still have the piece and I'd really like to know what the second inscription says.

Somebody can help?

Thank you.

Zifir · 22nd April 2010, 04:07 AM

I still can't read the first part, but the last two words as far as I can read are:

salih 'abd (righteous worshipper)

Possibly Dom can help for the rest.

Dom · 22nd April 2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zifir

I still can't read the first part, but the last two words as far as I can read are:

salih 'abd (righteous worshipper)

Possibly Dom can help for the rest.

Hi Zifir

the dedication does not seem complete, and the translation is aleatory
first part ??? and after "Abd" must be one of the 99 Allah names
otherwise, it will be mentionned "Abdo", it's NOT the case ...

we translated an other part
- OMAR SAHEB IBRAHIM AMAL 1225 either 1810 MADE BY IBRAHIM FOR (Saheb = owner) OMAR (inside the tughra)

à +

Dom

ps/ Zifir, do me a favour please, and tell me if you may help me here
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11738
thanks per anticipation - Dom

Zifir · 23rd April 2010, 10:08 AM

Hi Dom,
What you wrote about 'abd of course should be true for Arabic, but in Ottoman Turkish I have seen it to be used very liberally, in poems and prose Ottomans used this word only by itself (oddity of the Ottomans of course

) But still seeing the whole picture might also help.

And after much squinting and keep looking at the script for long time, I started to see some hallucinations I think, but I read the first two words as well, but I am unable to give them proper meaning. But my wild guess is that this might be a reference to Baktashi Order.

21st June 2008, 11:11 AM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Yataghan inscription for translation Hi, I've bought that yataghan recently. What the inscription says? Thnak you! Attached Images

22nd June 2008, 02:44 AM	#3
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	OK, here it is. Attached Images

27th July 2008, 08:53 PM	#6
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	another translation needed here it goes a new one. Can you translate please? Attached Images

22nd April 2010, 04:07 AM	#18
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	I still can't read the first part, but the last two words as far as I can read are: salih 'abd (righteous worshipper) Possibly Dom can help for the rest. Attached Images

23rd April 2010, 10:08 AM	#20
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Hi Dom, What you wrote about 'abd of course should be true for Arabic, but in Ottoman Turkish I have seen it to be used very liberally, in poems and prose Ottomans used this word only by itself (oddity of the Ottomans of course ) But still seeing the whole picture might also help. And after much squinting and keep looking at the script for long time, I started to see some hallucinations I think, but I read the first two words as well, but I am unable to give them proper meaning. But my wild guess is that this might be a reference to Baktashi Order. Attached Images

21st June 2008, 09:52 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	May we see pictures of the rest of the yat please?

18th July 2008, 09:26 AM	#5
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Sorry for bringing that thread up again. But I'm interested if someone could figured out what is the meaning of the second word. Thank you Zifir, for the last complete transaction!

27th July 2008, 10:50 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi, Date 1805/6 I think, but I stand to be corrected. Regards, Norman.

28th July 2008, 03:42 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Nice Valjhun, real silver inlay not koftgari.....

28th July 2008, 05:58 PM	#9
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Thank you Battara. T Norman,the year is 1220 hegira, so it would make 1842 in gregorian, I think.

28th July 2008, 06:49 PM	#10
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi Valjhun, If you use a Hegira to Gregorian calculator, available on the net, it comes out to 1805/06. 1220 x0.97+622. I'm pretty sure this is correct and it would make the Yataghan older than you thought so good news I hope. My Regards, Norman.

28th July 2008, 09:12 PM	#11
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	that is 1225 that last number is a khamsa not a 0 sifr

28th July 2008, 09:49 PM	#12
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi Ward, Which would make the equivalent Western date ???? Regards, Norman.

28th July 2008, 10:20 PM	#13
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	1810 (A.H. date) x .97 + 622 = (A.D. date) This equation can be off a month but it is close enough for our purposes. Norman your math was correct just wrong symbols for numbers

28th July 2008, 10:33 PM	#14
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi Ward, Thank you, I wasn't 100% sure re the arithmetic. My Regards, Norman.

1st August 2008, 08:03 PM	#15
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Surely, you are right... i've forgot to multipy witj 0.97 and I thought all the time that I was missing something Thanks. Can somebody translate the inscription?

11th August 2008, 02:32 PM	#16
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Hi, I was on vacation and could not follow the forum for a while. The first inscription: Amel-i İbrahim sahib Ömer Beşe 1225 (work of ibrahim, owner Ömer Beşe - the title "beşe" denoting that he was a janissary- 1810) I could not figure out the second one yet, I can read some parts of it but cannot give any meaning without reading other parts. Best,

21st April 2010, 10:53 PM	#17
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Hi, Sorry for resuscitating an old post, but I've accidetally came along this post today and I still have the piece and I'd really like to know what the second inscription says. Somebody can help? Thank you.