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Old 21st August 2013, 11:31 PM   #1
A. G. Maisey
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Default Bali Hilts

Here is my second attempt to drum up a little bit of interest in keris discussion.

Completely different to my posting of Grandfather photos, several rather nice Balinese hilts.

Perhaps somebody else may wish to add photos of Balinese hilts in their own collection?
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Old 22nd August 2013, 04:51 AM   #2
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All right , that is my last buy . Some of you already look at these pics for opinion on material used for this ganesha Bali hilt . Lot of different suggestions but looks like we have sperm whale tooth .... or horn ?! Impossible to remove the selut to get a closed inside view unfortunately .
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Old 22nd August 2013, 10:47 AM   #3
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Nice thread.

Here are some of my favorites.

Michael
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Last edited by VVV; 22nd August 2013 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Forgot to attach the wooden KK-hilt
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Old 22nd August 2013, 02:35 PM   #4
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Some more.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 11:56 PM   #5
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Here is my one and only Balinese hilt of ivory. I did the gold work since I could not find anyone here to do it.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 07:21 AM   #6
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And now for something completely simple...

The wood is Pink Ivory wood, one of the rarest woods in the world, and incredibly dense. I took the wood to Bali and had a good carver make this.
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Old 25th August 2013, 10:49 AM   #7
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Nice hilt Montino, and nice material.

A few years ago I sent two pieces of pink ivory to Madura to be carved. Pink ivory is a bit like purpleheart, in that you must let it sit for a while after working it to let the colour come out. The gentleman who carved my pink ivory thought he knew better than I did, he ignored my instructions and lacquered it immediately after he carved it. My pink ivory hilts are mid brown. I'll clean the lacquer off one day when I get around to it.

Anyway, here's 3 more Bali hilts.
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Old 25th August 2013, 05:40 PM   #8
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Default Incredible as usual!

What is the six-legged animal? More info please!

The accordion-pleated one at the bottom is wonderful too.
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Old 25th August 2013, 09:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montino Bourbon
What is the six-legged animal? More info please!
Montino, that is know as kocet-kocetan. Here is a good informational thread on them.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=kocet-kocetan
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Old 25th August 2013, 09:08 PM   #10
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I've posted these before in our "Figural" thread, but for the sake of grouping here are a couple of my Bali hilts. Nothing extraordinary, but they hold some personality for me.
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Old 27th August 2013, 01:37 PM   #11
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Some of mine
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Old 27th August 2013, 03:31 PM   #12
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Default New Bali Hilts

Two made by IB Pastika, all material is made from moose horn / elk.
Once polished the old moose material is as good as ivory. Now adays plenty in Bali.
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Old 27th August 2013, 06:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasjid
Once polished the old moose material is as good as ivory.
hmmm...i'm not sure i understand what that means. As good as ivory in what way?
Beautiful carvings BTW.
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Old 27th August 2013, 07:03 PM   #14
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Will the colour and structure of moose antler remain stable or reach a nice patinated aspect with time or not? If yes, it is indeed an excellent substitute to ivory. However I have noticed traces of uneven shades on some pieces made from moose antler and posted on Ebay.
These carvings are very fine but "too much" for my taste
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Old 27th August 2013, 07:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Will the colour and structure of moose antler remain stable or reach a nice patinated aspect with time or not? If yes, it is indeed an excellent substitute to ivory. However I have noticed traces of uneven shades on some pieces made from moose antler and posted on Ebay.
These carvings are very fine but "too much" for my taste
Regards
As a "substitute" for ivory to stem the slaughter of elephants for that valuable material, i agree. I just can't see this material as being "as good as" ivory. It doesn't have the depth and character of that material (at least not in any example i have seen) and it won't no matter how long it ages.
They are indeed perhaps a bit too fine for some tastes, but i do really like the detail in the kocet-kocetan hilt.
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Old 28th August 2013, 10:28 AM   #16
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yes David, I mean as substitute, if done properly the finish also smooth similar to ivory material. Ivory still give you better shine and harder material. The Moose material is finer than antler horn and I do have sample from bones (including giraffe bone for my knives), antler horn and ivory.
so, may be back to personal taste..thanks

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Old 28th August 2013, 02:24 PM   #17
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Some more....

Can someone tell me the story or any reason that this Bali handle in the old days they use human hair? The owner's hair or some one else's?
Thanks in advance
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Old 28th August 2013, 03:41 PM   #18
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Nice cekak redut (accordian stye) example you show her Rasjid.
On the hair, are you sure the hair on your example is human? I have one of these hilts and the hair just seems too coarse to be human. But i can think of numerous reasons from a magickal perspective why using one's own hair in this context would be effective in strengthening the bond between owner and weapon.
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Old 28th August 2013, 03:49 PM   #19
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Usually the hair on these Balinese hilts are from horse's hair.
However, I have heard that human hair quite often was used to fasten the hilt to the pesi...

Michael
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Old 28th August 2013, 04:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
Usually the hair on these Balinese hilts are from horse's hair.
However, I have heard that human hair quite often was used to fasten the hilt to the pesi...

Michael
Yes Michael, i have encountered this, but on Javanese keris only. Do you know if it was a practice outside of Jawa?
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Old 28th August 2013, 04:24 PM   #21
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Variations in style, age and material.
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Old 28th August 2013, 04:27 PM   #22
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Bondolan.
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Old 28th August 2013, 04:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Yes Michael, i have encountered this, but on Javanese keris only. Do you know if it was a practice outside of Jawa?
Have found some years ago a Bali keris where the hilt was attached with hair. And have heard that human hair was used by this cenangan hilts sometimes but normally was used horse hair.
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Old 28th August 2013, 06:37 PM   #24
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David, I'm not saying my hilt is using human hair, just heard story about it. I'm not keen to do some testing anyway . Looks like many other stories around it.

The cekah / cekahan solas is made from black wood and solas is sebelas ( eleven). I believe Alan's is 23 cuts or more? Havent count it yet.

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Old 30th August 2013, 02:29 AM   #25
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Three more, whale's teeth.

Teeth bought in Sydney in 1970's, salvaged from the sea bed rubbish dump of a whaling station in Western Australia. The teeth were taken to Bali and carved there. I did not order specific motifs, and left this to the carver.
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Old 3rd September 2013, 03:16 PM   #26
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Just in case someone surprise that these one are newly made...
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Old 4th September 2013, 09:45 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Three more, whale's teeth.

Teeth bought in Sydney in 1970's, salvaged from the sea bed rubbish dump of a whaling station in Western Australia. The teeth were taken to Bali and carved there. I did not order specific motifs, and left this to the carver.
Hi Alan,
Very nice specimens of hilts made from marine ivory! How long ago were they made and who was the maker if you agree to tell us?
Regards
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Old 4th September 2013, 10:48 AM   #28
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They were done about 3 or 4 years ago.

I do not know who carved them.

Jean, I have found that to get the best possible result from ordered work, at the best possible price, in Jawa and Bali it is best to go through a third party.

Going back 20 or 30 years I used to deal directly with craftsmen, and this works fine if you can be there while the job is being done. You can visit daily, supervise, create a socially binding relationship and at the end of the day you can finish up with a satisfactory result.

However, when you deal directly with a craftsman, place the order and then come back 6 or 12 months later to collect it you are setting yourself up for every possible variation of disappointment, failure and rip-off.

The way to get a good result on the long term order basis is to form a solid business link with a reliable third party:- business people are motivated by money; artists are motivated by emotion and personal contact.

However, if you use an agent to place and manage your order, you often do not know exactly who did the work.

In Solo I mostly know who the craftsman is who did the work, exactly what his personal situation is, and exactly what he charged for it.

In Bali I know nothing, except how to get the best possible finished product.
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Old 4th September 2013, 03:07 PM   #29
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Agreed Alan, from personal experience any where in the world would be similar situation...
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Old 5th September 2013, 12:18 AM   #30
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Alan, great carvings - reminiscent of older work IMHO.

2 questions:
  • If I were to send a piece to get gold Achenese mounts, should I do what you did in the case with Bali?
  • Do Balinese ivory keris hilts use mounts made of silver, or would gold also work?
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