Another Mystery?

David · 1st April 2015, 06:58 PM

Things seem a bit slow around here so perhaps i can spark a little conversation with another mystery. Again, at least a mystery to me.

I have shown this keris to another group of collectors and frankly the thoughts on origins were all over the place from Sumatra to the Peninsula.
Blade is just under 10 inches (25 cm.) with a very narrow profile. I have nicknamed it "needle" because of that. It get's VERY narrow at the waist (just about one cm). The blade has a bit of a diamond shaped cross section. Hilt is horn. The eyes in the parrot seem to be cut glass, but could be rock crystal. The pendokok i believe is silver. The flashing grain woods on the sheath are quite intense and beautifully arranged.
Some folks have suggested to me that this is an anak alang, but if so it is of a dhapur i have never seen on other blades of that category.

All comments are welcome.

Sajen · 1st April 2015, 08:04 PM

Hello David,
wow, a real beauty.

And like usual from you very good pictures.

My guess would be Peninsula, the hilt and the scabbard toe let me think like this. I have a very similar keris respective the blade shape in my collection, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=panjang, post #40
The blade is as well like a needle.

Regards,
Detlef

David · 1st April 2015, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I have a very similar keris respective the blade shape in my collection, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=panjang, post #40
The blade is as well like a needle.

I presume you mean the one with the ivory hilt. I do see similarities, though mine is, of course, but shorter and lacking greneng.
But wouldn't this keris of yours be from Sumatra? I do also find the parrot hilt a bit Peninsula like, but i believe i have seen Sumatran sheaths with this kind of toe before.
Anyway, thanks for your input.

Sajen · 1st April 2015, 10:23 PM

Yes, the one with the ivory hilt. The hilt isn't original to this keris. The blade lengths is without pesi 36,5 cm. The affinity I have seen is by the gandik area and the slenderness of the blade. I never have been sure from where this keris coming. Agree, I think to have seen Sumatra scabbards with this kind of toe before. Your keris look in all parts original, so my guess.

Regards,
Detlef

Bjorn · 2nd April 2015, 08:50 PM

A very interesting and good-looking piece. I especially like the way the ukiran has been cut on the back; very neatly done.

As for origins, I'm not speaking from any position of authority here, but to me the dress looks very Malaysian, especially the pendokok. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that from Sumatera, but would love to see pics if others have!

David · 2nd April 2015, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuuzan

I don't think I've ever seen anything like that from Sumatera, but would love to see pics if others have!

So would i Yuuzan. I'd love to hear from people even if they don't know what to make of this...105 views and only 2 people responding. Where did everyone go?

kai · 3rd April 2015, 03:40 AM

Hello David,

Thanks for posting that beauty of yours!

Quote:

I have shown this keris to another group of collectors and frankly the thoughts on origins were all over the place from Sumatra to the Peninsula

The pendokok and hilt are classic Terengganu style and also the scabbard and blade suit this designation. I'd believe the hilt to be not antique - possibly post-WW2.

Quote:

The eyes in the parrot seem to be cut glass, but could be rock crystal

Very likely glass (very commonly utilised, even in antique pieces).

Quote:

The flashing grain woods on the sheath are quite intense and beautifully arranged.

Yes, very nice wood, especially for a somewhat newer piece!

Quote:

Some folks have suggested to me that this is an anak alang, but if so it is of a dhapur i have never seen on other blades of that category. :shrug

I'd posit that this blade was intentionally designed to resemble the Bangkinang family of blades while being based on a more generic keris blade design. A nice touch IMHO!

Regards,
Kai

Gustav · 1st May 2015, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello David,

The pendokok and hilt are classic Terengganu style and also the scabbard and blade suit this designation. I'd believe the hilt to be not antique - possibly post-WW2.

Kai

Actually I cannot see nothing typically Terengganu neither in hilt and Pendokok, nor in scabbard and blade.

As I understand, the most old examples of this Burung Serindit hilt form are coming from the opposite coast - Perlis, Kedah, Perak.

Also the elongated Buntut Lipas of scabbard is associated with this coast.

Perhaps there is a little possibility the sampir has been very slightly changed in form at some time.

Seerp Visser · 2nd May 2015, 09:33 PM

David I like the quality of the photographs very much.
Can you give some advise of how to make them?

David · 2nd May 2015, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seerp Visser

David I like the quality of the photographs very much.
Can you give some advise of how to make them?

Thanks Seerp. I think i might have a bit of an edge since photography is my business, but the "secret" to my photos of keris is to keep it simple. I generally use indirect or diffused window light as the main light source and fill in shadows and edge light with a white reflector card. I keep my backgrounds dark and solid so as not to distract from the main subject. I use pro equipment, but many lower end cameras are capable of producing fine images these days.
Of course there are many other ways to approach the matter, both with natural light and strobes if you have the equipment. Below is one thread we have on the subject, but i think there are more if you search.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=photography

Seerp Visser · 9th May 2015, 10:04 PM

Thanks David, i red the article and that will help me further. I am studying the keris from the blacksmith point of view and have to include close-up photographs in my writings about the subject.
The low quality photography i produce at present does not contribute to the level of the work i try to achieve.

Gavin Nugent · 12th September 2023, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Actually I cannot see nothing typically Terengganu neither in hilt and Pendokok, nor in scabbard and blade.

As I understand, the most old examples of this Burung Serindit hilt form are coming from the opposite coast - Perlis, Kedah, Perak.

Also the elongated Buntut Lipas of scabbard is associated with this coast.

Perhaps there is a little possibility the sampir has been very slightly changed in form at some time.

Going over old threads looking for clues on another matter, I agree with Gustav To me, all features, including the manner of the carving and incising, it has a very Perak flavour to it.

kai · 12th September 2023, 08:33 AM

I fully agree, Gavin. Apologies for not responding to Gustav's correction! Not sure what happened back then - must have been a senior moment, twice...

BTW, any ideas what might be the southernmost limit for traditional production of this burung serindit hilt type? They might have been traded more widely while apparently genuine ensembles seem to point to the NW coast of the Malay peninsula (and possibly the NE Sumatran coast across the Straits?). During the 20th century, this motif seems to have been picked up more widely by carvers.

Interestingly, a distinct style of non-stylized representation of cockatoo hilt (for sewar) hails from the northeastern coast of Sumatra (now part of Aceh and possibly reaching down to the Deli/Asahan region?) and apparently the western coast of the Malay peninsula, too. This seems to be an older type than the keris hilt.

Regards,
Kai

David · 12th September 2023, 09:19 PM

Thank you gentlemen for adding a few additional thoughts on this keris.

Gavin Nugent · 13th September 2023, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I fully agree, Gavin. Apologies for not responding to Gustav's correction! Not sure what happened back then - must have been a senior moment, twice...

BTW, any ideas what might be the southernmost limit for traditional production of this burung serindit hilt type? They might have been traded more widely while apparently genuine ensembles seem to point to the NW coast of the Malay peninsula (and possibly the NE Sumatran coast across the Straits?). During the 20th century, this motif seems to have been picked up more widely by carvers.

Interestingly, a distinct style of non-stylized representation of cockatoo hilt (for sewar) hails from the northeastern coast of Sumatra (now part of Aceh and possibly reaching down to the Deli/Asahan region?) and apparently the western coast of the Malay peninsula, too. This seems to be an older type than the keris hilt.

Regards,
Kai

I agree with your thoughts Kai.

To me personally, I feel the Tumbuk (Sewar to some) with the distinct parrot head hulu and parrot head sampir can be in some instances be a good deal older than the keris hulu, and it does seem, (but) at what point I do not know, that the keris hulu did find its way over to the east coast too, in both keris and Sundang as seen in these pages.

It is possible they developed together though as many of the Sundang I've seen from Malaysia/Malaysia Borneo appear to carry an eagle head pommel.... and very Terengganu like blades and features...

Just out of interest, when looking at the Perak Royal Regalia photo from 1907, there is a large example of the Tumbuk with a head that looks dressed like the Parang Nabur/Beladah Belabang of Kalimantan. One of our learned colleagues here calls them Pedang Salin Alai Waloet.

The most southern point, I've never really explored.... delving in to the mind's archives, it seems to have stopped at the Sultanate of Deli and the regions below had their own unique carving styles.... I may look in to further some day if a LONG life is had.

A couple of random links, the book to this link since released.
https://www.nst.com.my/lifestyle/sun...d-islamic-arts

Perak Royal regalia
https://www.nst.com.my/lifestyle/sun...d-islamic-arts

And one for good luck
https://sembangkuala.wordpress.com/2...um-sultan-ali/

1st April 2015, 06:58 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Another Mystery? Things seem a bit slow around here so perhaps i can spark a little conversation with another mystery. Again, at least a mystery to me. I have shown this keris to another group of collectors and frankly the thoughts on origins were all over the place from Sumatra to the Peninsula. Blade is just under 10 inches (25 cm.) with a very narrow profile. I have nicknamed it "needle" because of that. It get's VERY narrow at the waist (just about one cm). The blade has a bit of a diamond shaped cross section. Hilt is horn. The eyes in the parrot seem to be cut glass, but could be rock crystal. The pendokok i believe is silver. The flashing grain woods on the sheath are quite intense and beautifully arranged. Some folks have suggested to me that this is an anak alang, but if so it is of a dhapur i have never seen on other blades of that category. All comments are welcome. Attached Images

2nd May 2015, 09:33 PM	#9
Seerp Visser Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Belgium Posts: 37	Photographs David I like the quality of the photographs very much. Can you give some advise of how to make them?

1st April 2015, 08:04 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello David, wow, a real beauty. And like usual from you very good pictures. My guess would be Peninsula, the hilt and the scabbard toe let me think like this. I have a very similar keris respective the blade shape in my collection, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=panjang, post #40 The blade is as well like a needle. Regards, Detlef

1st April 2015, 10:23 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Yes, the one with the ivory hilt. The hilt isn't original to this keris. The blade lengths is without pesi 36,5 cm. The affinity I have seen is by the gandik area and the slenderness of the blade. I never have been sure from where this keris coming. Agree, I think to have seen Sumatra scabbards with this kind of toe before. Your keris look in all parts original, so my guess. Regards, Detlef

2nd April 2015, 08:50 PM	#5
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	A very interesting and good-looking piece. I especially like the way the ukiran has been cut on the back; very neatly done. As for origins, I'm not speaking from any position of authority here, but to me the dress looks very Malaysian, especially the pendokok. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that from Sumatera, but would love to see pics if others have!

9th May 2015, 10:04 PM	#11
Seerp Visser Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Belgium Posts: 37	Thanks David, i red the article and that will help me further. I am studying the keris from the blacksmith point of view and have to include close-up photographs in my writings about the subject. The low quality photography i produce at present does not contribute to the level of the work i try to achieve.

12th September 2023, 08:33 AM	#13
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	I fully agree, Gavin. Apologies for not responding to Gustav's correction! Not sure what happened back then - must have been a senior moment, twice... BTW, any ideas what might be the southernmost limit for traditional production of this burung serindit hilt type? They might have been traded more widely while apparently genuine ensembles seem to point to the NW coast of the Malay peninsula (and possibly the NE Sumatran coast across the Straits?). During the 20th century, this motif seems to have been picked up more widely by carvers. Interestingly, a distinct style of non-stylized representation of cockatoo hilt (for sewar) hails from the northeastern coast of Sumatra (now part of Aceh and possibly reaching down to the Deli/Asahan region?) and apparently the western coast of the Malay peninsula, too. This seems to be an older type than the keris hilt. Regards, Kai

12th September 2023, 09:19 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Thank you gentlemen for adding a few additional thoughts on this keris.