Pattern British Sword?

[mgolab]

Just bought this and waiting for it to come in. Some pictures attached. Appears to have a Crowned G?

Appreciate any comments

[toaster5sqn]

It doesn't appear to be any of the pattern swords. The 1788 spadroons had a wide variety of guards but the pattern mandated a 32" blade so it's not one of those.
Of course there were a huge range of regimental and militia swords that did not conform to the patterns so it could certainly be one of those.
A straight backsword blade, looking to be quite broad but not overly long with a simple knuckle bow hand guard makes me think of pioneer swords and similar.

Hopefully someone with an idea of what it actually is may chime in.

Robert

[mgolab]

Thank you Robert. Could this be an infantry hanger given its dimensions? If you google 1780 British Infantry hanger something similar comes up.

[Radboud]

I agree with Robert; it's a pre-pattern British sword dating to around the 1780s. The Crown over G could be for Thomas Gill; I believe that he used a stamp like that before 1800.

If you search the Royal Armouries online catalogue, you'll find several examples of similar-looking swords described as "Light cavalry trooper sword". Although they have langets and the blades are different. You may also want to consider that the blade on your sword has been shortened.

[mgolab]

Thank you very much. That is great. now, hopefully it comes in the mail...

[Jim McDougall]

In this period of British sword making, technically there were no 'patterns' until 1796. Through the 18th century British cavalry were dragoons, and the favored swords were basket hilt types, with some variations in form, always straight blades

In the late 1750s there were moves toward light cavalry following European hussars with lighter swords. While Europeans used sabers, the British decided on lighter swords keeping straight blades. These were of the form termed four slot guards and several units of cavalry were appointed 'light dragoons'. By the 1770s these types of swords were in use, but not in any official pattern.

The first image is one of these by Thomas Gill, the date unclear, but GILL is stamped on the blade forte.....on the tang is a TG under crown (as seen in next photo on different sword).

In these times it seems unclear on the marking of blades, and again no strict regulation on application.

Next photo is a Thomas Gill spadroon (as previously mentioned). These were infantry officers swords of 1780s+.

Next image one of the four slot light dragoon swords 1770s

Next photo is a brass stirrup hilt with straight blade clipped point which has become considered by many a 1780 type which was to light dragoons, and following European saber hilt styling. Few of these were apparently issued, possibly to 15th Light Dragoons ?

By 1788, the first unofficial 'pattern' was developed following European hussar style and now with saber blades. The first by Gill seems to follow German style, the next by Wooley French style.

It seems doubtful to me that this was a pre pattern British style, but a later sword perhaps for other ranks, militia etc. using an 18th century blade, noting the wide back fuller. Perhaps the mark is actually TG under crown?
The curled in quillon is most unusual.

The relatively short blade does goes against cavalry swords of this period of 18th century, by then the call was for longer blades, some up to 39".

[mgolab]

Originally Posted by Radboud

I agree with Robert; it's a pre-pattern British sword dating to around the 1780s. The Crown over G could be for Thomas Gill; I believe that he used a stamp like that before 1800.

If you search the Royal Armouries online catalogue, you'll find several examples of similar-looking swords described as "Light cavalry trooper sword". Although they have langets and the blades are different. You may also want to consider that the blade on your sword has been shortened.

would you say it is infantry or naval?

[Jim McDougall]

As the infantry in the British army ceased carrying the sword c 1784, the only option would be perhaps this could be an officers fighting sword with perhaps a heirloom blade.

I am thinking perhaps this might be a private purchase naval sword as the straight blade corresponds to the naval cutlass (with sheet guard) c. 1804, but that just as all ideas must be pure speculation.

There are many variables with swords and their ersatz versions often comprised of various components, especially in these times, so hard to say without provenance.

To illustrate this 'phenomenon', this is a British military basket hilt, munitions grade by Jeffries, London who was a cutler producing swords with these type hilts, notably for the Black Watch c. 1750s.
When the Black Watch was in America as the Revolution ended, these were turned in and went into stores.
Apparently, there were several cases in later years where M1788 light cavalry blades were mounted into these hilts (I have seen 2, possibly 3 including mine).
There is no way to assess what these were intended for, possibly fighting swords for officers in Highland regiments? Naturally, there are no official records.

These kinds of anomalies are fascinating, and often offer compelling possibilities, but still speculation.