Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
In rereading awdaniec666 thread (previously linked) I wanted to note that his resounding work toward a better understanding of the KARABELA sabers which were well known developing in 17th century Poland is brilliantly written, researched and thought out.
I would also point out that he responsibly posted a disclaimer, as most reliable authors do, that much of what is written is of course subject to revision as research is always evolving. In fact most authors encourage further research and rebuttal. noting their own responsibly for any errors.
Discussion is not meant to be a narrow, one sided interaction, but an open discourse where examples, material, ideas are shared toward the subject at hand. In most research I have experienced, important clues have surfaced from often unrelated or barely similar examples.
It is most unfortunate when efforts of anyone participating in a discussion are discounted abrasively as seen here. In the derisive comment about the alleged downturn of our forum in the 'past 10-15 years', I am curious on that assessment from someone who has only participated in the last 2 years.
Getting to the subject matter here, I would point out that the hilt here only superficially resembles a karabela hilt, so as not 'exact' it is not a karabela 
There can be no variation, it must be exact to be properly classified. It is obviously an interpretation made to resemble these hilts. The rosettes are notably crude.
The comments on the blade are most interesting, as this EUROPEAN blade stated most likely German vs. Italian (North Italy and South Germany were obviously closely paralleled) and PREDATES the 'karabela'in Poland (17th c.).
So may I ask to see images, examples, references (worthy only) which show German 'shamshir TYPE' blades of 16th century, or Italian versions which might also contend.
The term KARABELA has been 'married' into the lexicon of the Polish people for a very long time (as well explained in the thread noted) and in MANY references on arms referred to as the 'national' sword as it is so highly regarded in its traditional form. The Polish people are quite proud of these.
Pictured is a karabela with the 'exact' hilt shape.
Looking forward to seeing blades like the one on the sword in original post of pre 17th c. German origin. |
First of, i writen wrongly, italian not german.
Second, it is obvious awdaniec666 and you dodnt read or didnt understand what i writen, i was asking about marks and not about your opinions on origin of a blade, mark is clearly visoble but if you say that you can determine quality, origin or anything about some sword from only pictures, then sir you are a fraud.
Second thing is about my involvement on forum, i was reading all the posts for years, one do not need to write and discuc to know the quality of a forum, or to see a forum droped in quality, and for you to write that to me shows your competention and quality.
Im finished with d. Measurements with you and awdani666, you both showed enough of your “quality and persona”.
That saber i posted is a karabela, has a 250-300 hundred years old birds head handle on it and i think around 550-500 years old italian blade.
And if you by looking at pictures of it want to call it a shamshir, a yatagan or a rapier, please do, idgf for it.
But it is a karabela.