SPANDAU BALLET
 

Years ago in Nashville, I became intrigued by WWI aviation fighters, and was studying the Lafayette Escadrille, which was a volunteer squadron flying for France, and of course the famed Red Baron of Germany.

I met an elderly man who was also interested in this topic, and who said he actually had some 'Spandau' machine guns (LMG '08) . I went to visit him, and was a bit surprised at the huge steel door that secured a room, and he took me in. I was STUNNED!!! not a 'couple' of these familiar guns we have seen on the German WWI fighter planes in books and films....but a huge wall of them...as well as allied Vickers and Lewis guns!

The last I ever heard of this, he was trying to find a home for them, and incredibly US museums were reluctant, and I think they went to the Netherlands. I have never forgotten this overwhelming experience, and wanted to share with anyone out there interested in WWI aviation and weaponry.

I playfully titled the photos I took, "Spandau Ballet" for the pop music group.
The history of the Red Baron became iconic in WWI aviation, and into pop culture in the famed Charlie Brown comics and Snoopy!

The insignia of the Lafayette Escadrille was an American Indian chief on their Nieuport 17 airplanes. This is believed to have been taken from the logo on ammunition boxes from Savage Arms Co. in New York.

What an amazing collection!!
Here is a link with info about the Lafayette Escadrille https://www.worldwar1centennial.org/...scadrille.html
Stu

Thank you so much Stu!! Wonderful link!!!
I wasnt sure about this topic as its pretty far out in left field for our usual arms related studies, but seemed worth giving it a go. You have always been key in remembering men lost in the wars, and these guys were dauntless.

Definately on topic! Those are guns and I guess they could well be called both antique and Ethnic since they originated in Germany. Some pics from a local airshow which probably are not out of place with the topic!

Breathtaking photos Stu!!
The picture of the Fokker D VII brought to mind the tiny 1/72 scale air force I made (out for surgery a month) back then. I painted these rather than using decals and researched each pilots plane to be sure of them from pictures. The DVII you can see among them, the camoflage was maddening! took me over a week! I did use the rounds and crosses though/ :)

Great models Jim. I used to make these as a kid, but then there were not so many types available as there are now. Perhaps I should start again though I don't have much room to display them now.
Stu

Yup, as kids making models was almost a religion, and it was an endless pursuit. My dad was a bomber pilot right into airlines as the war ended and we were literally all about aviation.
The reason I went with the 1/72 scale is that they were so small so didnt take much room.

Getting back to the machine guns, as expected hard to find, most around are the unshielded ground use types, but still horrendously expensive. The fact that this man had gotten these many years back when such things were still around (like so many things).

Some more photos and this time of German aircraft which probably fit with the Spandau better than the British ones. The Spandau guns (replicas in this case) can clearly be seen on the Fokker Triplanes. The other British Triplane is a Sopwith.
Stu

Well, just because these guns were made in Germany i would hardly call them "Ethnographic". They are factory manufactured machine guns.
Thanks for the all the images of those magnificient flying machines. Also not "ethnographic", but still amazing aircraft and i have had a special interest in WWI airplanes since childhood. :)

"The last I ever heard of this, he was trying to find a home for them, and incredibly US museums were reluctant"

the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has made up its own laws infringing US Citizens abilities to own automatic weapons.


Aside from the outrageous prices those Spandaus would sell for, if ATF let him sell them at their market value, there is a $500 per item 'transfer tax' that ATF imposes on the recipient, even if they are given away. I imagine any museum would be reluctant to go thru all the paperwork involved. Hopefully the new post-election brooms will sweep clean there, and their Constitutional 'infringement' will be modified.


Currently, If you sell firearm for more than you paid for it, ATF will likely arrest and prosecute you for acting as a 'dealer' without the proper ATF licences, which is a felony, resulting in loss of ALL your firearms and terminating your ability to obtain more permanently (felons cannot own firearms) as well as fines and serious jail time. The ATF also can arbitrarily remove your licence if you have one, at their whim.


Ukraine is currently taking WW1 and earlier water cooled Spandaus/Maxims and using them in their front lines. Air cooled machine guns have limited barrel life due to heat buildup, requiring barrel replacement after just a couple hundred rounds, not a problem with water cooled WW1 style weapons which are favoured against Russian WW1 mass attack tactics. I am not sure if the air cooled ones in WW1 aircraft were sufficiently cooled by the aircraft motion & propeller wind.



In any case they are not 'ethnic', and are indeed 'European' and hence do not belong in that forum. As they (Maxims) were designed and used pre-1900, and well before WW1, in the USA and Europe, they should be discussed there, if at all.

European Ethnic Groups
 

https://www.google.com/search?q=euro...client=gws-wiz

So acording to this, Germans are Ethnic, so the Spandau is an Ethnic weapon??

LOL! I wondered how long until these things came up.
I was a bit hesitant to post this because of the inherent aviation inclusion and obviously post 1900, so had become more inclined to post these kinds of military things in MISC.
As there is no European misc. nor American etc. I had been trying to post items outside the 1900 demarcation here to avoid issues. This had come up with things like my 1913 Patton sword etc. .

I suppose maybe it would good idea to make the forum title here either misc. or both European & ethnographic misc.?

In any case, its a fun topic, and I guess in my ancient age things nostalgic are keenly in mind, so I am grateful for the responses here, latitude and fun.
Wayne, amazing info, especially that these are still used!!! Incredible.
Stu, again thanks for all the amazing photos of these planes, what fun it would be to see them fly!

Time to get the "Flyboys" movie again !!! :)

Spandau used to be a district in Germany and since 1920 part of Berlin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandau

During the Prussian imperial days they used to have a factory there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandau_Arsenal

This section of the Forum has always included non weapons and as Jim says above, maybe a renaming of this section would be of help, and non weapons to be included even if they are not necessarily "Ethnic". The European Armoury section often includes relatively modern weapons without any negative comment, so why is this section limited? It would be fair to say that most items posted in any of our sections are mostly true Ethnic (native) and could also be fairly described as "Antique", but there are also those which perhaps do not fall accurately into either category. Examples would be native jewellery and other accessary items such as native headwear/helmets etc.
Those of us who collect, generally have other items which they seek comment or information on,..... items which do not fall exactly into the categorys offered
This Forum is very informative and maybe a further section could be added to cover the above.
The knowledge held by present Members is absolute gold, and should be shared openly with those who come after us. As we know there has been untold information lost for ever when the older Members pass.
Perhaps the Moderators could look at this.
Stu

Extremely well said Stu!
These forums are all about exchanging valuable information and friendly discussion, and sometimes things are not necessarily categoric. In most cases topics which in some degree exceed defined limitations, the patience and courtesy of the members here make allowances and keep things on track. I think that should prevail, and not require more regulation necessarily.

As an afterthought perhaps the Moderators would consider dropping off the word "Ethnographic" and simply call the section "Miscellania" which would solve the issue?
Stu

BINGO!!!! and we continue :)

:eek::eek:

What I mean is that is the exact solution! :)
Actually I never noticed the forum title specified ethnographic! bonk!

Yes I understood that Jim.
As you have said, the Forum is an excellent reference point and contains a wealth of knowledge. It would be a great loss if as a result of Members passing, that it was to deminish in content. Surely allowing other interesting items to be openly discussed should not be looked upon as against the "rules", but looked upon as a way to enhance it's content and attract more active Members for the future.
Stu

Air cooled
 

Great guns!

Perhaps, air cooled was a good choice for early airplanes for weight reasons. And as ammunition is also heavy, planes could not carry much so burning out the barrels not likely.
For example a fully armed WW2 Spitfire could only carry enough ammunition to fire its guns for around 20 seconds.
Skill was a crucial factor in aiming where the enemy plane was going to be not where it was, hence the training of pilots on clay pigeon shooting.

Stu, truly well noted and perfectly said. We have all together pretty much poured heart and souls into these forums in working to build knowledge together. While like any family we have had our ups and downs, the huge core of knowledge collected on these pages and archived will hopefully remain a resource found by those who will follow us, and help them as the continue the work we have all shared.

Thank you CC for the nudge back to topic, and very well made point, the Spandau for use in these planes had to have been air cooled as the weight of water would have been too much. It does not seem they carried an excessive weight of ammunition either. As I mentioned, there was a 'counter' which kept count of the number of rounds spent.
There do not seem to have been the 'guns blazing' scenes naturally employed often in depictions of air battles, and it was more the minimal rat-tat-tat, short bursts more accurately portrayed.
That being the case, the overheating of barrels would not have been a likely problem as you note.

Most of the Spandau's I have seen offered in sales seem to be more the ground use versions, most of which do not have the familiar heat shields covering the barrel. Having noted that, it seems curious that these 'aviation' guns as used would not have needed such a feature as the barrels were not likely to overheat.
Perhaps these heat shield surrounds on these guns for use on these planes were indeed to perhaps capture the air passing over the gun as useful in air cooling the barrel?

Looking into cooling of the allied guns.

Lewis gun and cooling
 

Just looked further on the cooling dilemma so wanted to add as we look more into this:
Apparently the LEWIS guns were indeed air cooled and actually DID have a heat shroud.
What I found says these had a finned cast aluminum 'heat sink' around the barrel covered by a tubular heat shroud.This was open at both ends to allow air to be drawn in and pass through and over the cooling fins to dissipate radiated heat.

There seems to have been a misconception that the shroud held water, since disproven according to the online source.

These Lewis guns were produced in Belgium but later also by the Savage Arms Co. in New York, previously mentioned with the Indian chief with headdress logo they used and adopted by the famed Lafayette Escadrille.

As a side note on these early machine guns, not related to these larger aviation guns, on the Thompson sub machine gun.
Years ago in the early days of my career in airline passenger service, pre-security, guns were often carried aboard flights, and until the first hijackings there seemed little concern.
I can recall one instance where a guy was transporting with him, one of these THOMPSON'S!!! but without the drum ubiquitous in the familiar 'mobster' scenes. While it seemed unusual, but notable at the time, looking back at that instance now, it seems incredibly bizarre!
To indulge this digression slightly further, one old gentleman who had been an FBI agent in the 30s, had amazing tales and told me that in the 'city' they only used service revolvers, and only used the 'tommies' in more rural situations. I wished I had more time to talk with him but as always in airports, time dominates.

Stu, i wasn't making a negative comment, simply pointing out that a military machine gun is not an ethnographic weapon. No one is limiting you on what is being discussed here and no one but you have brought up the question of forum "rules". If it was my intention to suggest this discussion should be shut down i would have clearly said so in very clear language. There is also a huge difference in the meaning of "ethnic" vs "ethnographic" and Ethnographic is the category that this forum is dedicated to. Still, this is the Miscellaneous Forum so there is certainly room for discuss on items beyond our usual purview. But purely for discussion's sake let's be real here. Simply because a weapon has been made in a country that has a unique ethnicity does not mean that the weapon in question displays that unique ethnicity in it's design or function. There is nothing in the design of the Spandau machine gun that speaks specifically to German culture.
As for those who collect military weapons and memorabilia, there are tons of forums out there dedicated to such discussions. I don't think we are at risk of seeing information on such weapons being lost at any point in the immediate future.
But please, carry on. As i clearly pointed out before, WWI air warfare has always been a personal interest of mine and i am enjoy this thread, especially all the images of the aircraft you posted. ;)

Thank you David. I am not in the business of trying to stir up trouble or argue the views of the Moderators, but simply trying to point out that IMHO the Miscellaneous section conveys to me that it is just that...Miscellaneous. I am perhaps afraid that as our older Member pass (I am about to turn 81) large amounts of knowledge for those who follow us will be lost. Maybe the Moderators would seriously consider either changing the title of this section, or as an alternative add a further category which would allow discussion of more recently (but still ANTIQUE) items to be openly discussed.
I accept that the title of the Website is "Ethnographic" and not "Ethnic" and there are other sites which deal in what I would call modern weapons, but I would like to think that items produced up to the late 19th century could perhaps be included here. Some are already, in the European Armoury section such as military swords so where does one draw the line?
I respect the Rules as they exist, but wonder if perhaps with the passing of time that they maybe could be revisited to possibly include a wider range of items accepted for discussion.
Stu

NICE A friend of mine has one of these in full operational order. The Lewis was used extensivly in WW2 also and was often twin mounted and used this way by (notibly) the Long Range Desert Group mounted on their Jeeps and trucks.
Stu

Speaking of ethnicity.
This cartoon of Europe must be from the WW1 era.

The subscript reads: "The mad house (old song, new tune)"

Hi Stu. I believe you are operating under a misconception. AFAIK, the word "antique" doesn't appear anywhere in the forum titles or the general rules about posting. Not only are items produced in the late 19th century quite often included on our forums, but on the Keris Forum at least, we frequently discuss 20th and 21st century keris, even ones made just yesterday. So there is no line there at all. Ethnographic has nothing to do with the age of the weapon. They are simply weapons that are specific to a particular culture that reflect the values, craft and design that are a unique part of those cultures. And for the most part they are not factory made items such as modern military weaponry.
Now again, i am not stating this to squash the current discussion here. Please continue as it seems you and others (and even myself in some aspects) are enjoying this threads and it does appear in the Miscellaneous Section after all. However, i see no reason to drop the "Ethnographic" from the name of this particular forum as we are indeed a website dedicated specifically to ethnographic weapons and armour. As i mentioned before, there are tons of sites out there that focus on modern Military weaponry, bith very specifically and generally that are doing a great job preserving the knowledge of WWI and WWII guns and aircraft. That simply is not the focus of this website. And just as you mention the passing of members and your own age, we moderators are just as antique as some of the weapons we post. As i'm sure you know we just lost one of our beloved team and are understaffed as it is. So expanding and adding new categories outside of the scope of Ethnographic Weapons is not really feasible or practical. Asking a forum that is focussed on Ethnographic Weapons to open up a new forum for people to discuss manufactured military machine guns is like asking a forum for Folk Music to add a section to discuss Prog Rock. There is a place for everything.
I would ask at this point that if you wish to continue discussing this further that you make a PM directly to members of the Moderation Team rather than continuing it here. Forum policy is not to be discussed in the open forums. Thanks! :)

Someone from another unrelated forum I frequent found the following description online:

Thank you David for your patience regarding the above discussions.
I would just like to clarify, and seek clarification on the following two points before I close my ramblings.
I use, and have always used the term ANTIQUE, purely to describe items either over 100 years old or made before 1900. There was no intention on my part to suggest that this Forum dealt in Antiques as such, or changed anything in the Rules to include the word Antique.
In one of the replies above it was stated that a Spandau was not an Ethnographic item as it was factory produced, so how can a German/Austrian/English/French sword or other items which are also factory produced, and discussed in the European Armoury, be described as Ethnographic?
I leave you with these thoughts and thank you for your tolerance.
Stu

Statement of Policy
 

Back before there was a forum component on this site - just over a quarter of a century ago - I wrote this: My attitude has not changed. I did and do acknowledge that the interests of the forum community that developed would not be constrained by my arbitrary definitions and would be as irregularly broad as are my own interests. The Miscellanea section was later added to accommodate discussions of other artifacts specifically of the cultures that created the edged weapons primarily considered here, acknowledging these broader interests. I have tolerated occasional diversions into militaria as I understand that the interests of many of us do extend into that realm, but such materials and discussions lie outside of the intended focus of this project.

Thank you for this Lee. Perhaps with your clarification above as to what is acceptable for discussion, you could please address the question I raised above regarding Factory produced swords of fairly recent vintage being included and discussed in the European Armoury Section. Under the definition you give, these surely can not be classed as Ethnographic?
Stu

The 'Spandau' machine guns were produced in Germany based on the designs of the Maxim machine guns of Hiram KMaxim from 1884, and licensed accordingly. They were produced for a 'German' 7.62 mm cartridge rather than .30-06. That's about the only 'ethnic' difference.


It kinda reminds me of the Indonesian Dutch 'klewang', designed by Europeans for use by indigenous troops in the 19c, produced in Hembrug, and in Solingen, and MILSCO in the USA, used by all the major combatants in WW1/2, as well as 'ancient' sharp pointy things STILL in use by civilians and military,like kris/khukuri/ginunting/barongs/machetes/daab, and a host of others still used as tools AND when needed, weapons.


Ethnographic kinda means 'Eastern' and 'European' kinda means 'Western', with fuzzy overlaps.We rightly, don't discuss modern/vintage 'replicas', tho they are sometimes useful as illustrations or caveats. I would limit those to fairly accurate 'museum' grade replicas. As in Experimental 'archeology'.



All-in-all, I do not envy the Mods/Admins, the arbiters of who does what to whom, and where. I occasionally disagree with them, but they run things here.


'Ethnographic' in the banner at the page top is a bit fuzzy, but I can't think of a replacement at present...


I suggest we just use a bit of common sense (not very common any more), discretion and tolerance. I also think we don't need any 'new' sub-forums. I look to us being a store-room of knowledge, and of instruction for the new collectors, as well as tthe old ones.

Gentlemen, i don't want to sound like a broken record, but again, discussions or explanations regarding forum policies have no place in the open forums. If anyone wishes to continue to question why one thing has been permitted fair for discussion in the forums while another thing has not or you would like further clarification question the meaning of "Ethnographic" or the origin or current intent of this website's forum i suggest to PM the moderation team. This forum is and always has been Lee's baby, but even though over the years the moderation team has helped work out the specifics of how we operate, we are all, regardless of our advancing years, just teenagers living in our parent's house. ;)
From the Rules page for all forums.
I want to complain about a forum policy: These fora are managed by a volunteer Moderator Team and each moderator has a vote on fora policies. Concerns may be directed to any of the moderators (or to webmaster@vikingsword.com) for presentation to and consideration by the Moderator Team. Do not create a thread in the forums for your grievance or suggestion, unless you wish to risk being banned.

Actually I agree that administrative matters should entirely be discussed privately as on threads these kinds of diversions not only derail discussion but can often obstruct it. As I am the one who began this thread and it seems inadvertently entered a topic which is by definition outside forum parameters, I bear responsibility for this situation.

However I am grateful for the forbearance of the staff in permitting the discussion and entries which seem to indeed reveal the common interest many of us share in the elements of WWI aviation and the weaponry used. In the future I will check with staff before posting a thread which may fall into potentially controversial category. As seen, sometimes these topics do have merit, and can bring useful discussion and sharing of knowledge without compromising the general content here.
The primary objective of certain regulation is understood to avoid having our pages fall into the quagmire of content including militaria and modern reproductions of weapons which have profoundly diffused some other forums.

As already well explained, it does not seem necessary to re-title things nor to create yet another sub-forum, as we all work together in sharing discussion and material, and the moderators have the thankless job of trying to maintain some semblance of order.

In arms and armor, much as in history itself, it is often difficult to strictly categorize, much as we find in trying to rigidly classify weapons by distinct form.
As has been noted, essentially the ethnic/ethnographic or Eastern vs. Western denominators in general application are not consequential.

As Kipling said in 1889, in his "Ballad of East and West":
"...oh East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet.
till earth and sky stand presently at Gods great judgement seat.
But there is neither East nor West, border nor breed nor birth,
when two strong men stand face to face, though they come from
the ends of the earth".

While a tenuously applied analogy, it seemed to apply, not only in the sense of the ethnographic to western issues, but to all of us here, whom I view as all strong men, whose ideas may often differ, but we find common ground.

It would seem the discussion has run its course on the Spandau topic, but I hope the thread might stay open for any future input. In any case, Id like to thank everyone for their entries, and to thank the clearly notable number of readers for their interest.

All best regards,
Jim

Musings and explanations
 

I believe that the post 1900 / 100 year old "cutoff" may have been Fernando's personal "rule of thumb" in moderating the European Arsenal section of the forum. Life is better for all when members of the moderation team are allowed reasonable latitude. Personally, I'd classify a British Brown Bess, a British model 1796 cavalary saber and a model 1860 U.S. cavalry saber all as militaria. A reworking of any of these within another culture might surely create an ethnographic weapon character and discussion in the forum may also be relevant to considerations in the "evolution" of ethnographic types and the martial environment they existed in.

I started out as a militaria collector. In suburban middle America of the 1960s and 70s this is where one's opportunities were going to lie. I avoided contributing to the current "Arms Collecting and Nostalgia" thread because how my interest in European medieval arms initially arose is a bit embarrassing. Even as I focused on European medieval swords, I would occasionally find interesting and analogous metalworking techniques in edged weapons from many cultures and times and I began collecting these. Decent examples were relatively inexpensive in the 1980s and 90s.

I discovered the internet during this phase and this project began being about European medieval swords. Much of the interest in discussion groups then was very much of the "collect all of the Oakeshott types in modern mass-produced replica form." Bored during a clinical chemistry conference irrelevant to my work, my mind began to drift and that is when I wrote the paragraph quoted above in my previous post and conceived the ethnographic part of this web project. With more than a little bit of arrogance and presumptiveness I took it upon myself to suggest that aspiring collectors should focus on something that I considered worthwhile and meriting their attentions and that if they did not have the luck and resources to pursue authentic medieval European swords, then there still were ingenuously and proficiently handmade antique arms and armour from other times and places languishing at gun shows and antique shops that could be had for very reasonable prices.

From when I started going to the Baltimore show decades ago, I remembered an intriguing and detailed educational display of Philippine edged weapons. The next year I earnestly looked for it, but it was gone. On a snack break I saw someone with some Philippine items and offhandedly lamented to him that I had missed the amazing display from the previous year. He replied that it had been his, but that influential members of the gun collecting and dealing fraternity had declared it a waste of scarce display space. I heard the same sentiment from some gun and militaria dealers I knew as well. Well, if they can be narrow minded jerks, so can I.

Relatedly, a word on the absolute hostility towards commerce in our discussion forums and the tight restrictions even in the swap forums. This is probably best explained with an analogy: consider a garden where you are attempting to grow some fastidious plants, here representing the sharing of knowledge and appreciation of ethnographic arms and armour. Commerce represents weeds in that sharing of knowledge may be seen as giving up commercial advantage in the market. Against the alternative of "wheeling and dealing" and acquiring, the pursuit of knowledge will be pushed aside. Consider the annual Ethnographic Arms and Armour dinner and lectures seminar that we held each year to coincide with the Baltimore show over a decade ago. This thrived until an antique arms and armour auction came to be held in the same hotel also on Saturday evening - when the auction started, the seminar room thinned out quickly and to such an extent that the the seminar series was abandoned just a few years later. Most "antique arms collector" groups in the US are in fact, in my opinion, essentially dealer organizations. This is surely not to say that I have not known and appreciated dealers who have nurtured my connoisseurship and knowledge, but they are the best and the exceptions. My hope here has been that by rigorously combating such weeds, the forum will be and remain a place where we can all share our knowledge, insights and enthusiasm for the subject.

Thank you so much Lee! Wonderfully explained, and great analogies! and importantly noting that lines of demarcation such as the 1900 or 100 year marks are not necessarily written in stone. The moderation team indeed must evaluate topics and subject matter using a degree of latitude and determine how these might effect the overall contexts of discussions on our pages.

With the matter of military items, I understand exactly what you mean in noting that the Brown Bess musket, M1796 light cavalry sword etc. which of course are in that category and discussed openly in the European forum. However, as these weapons became present in colonial situations, they in fact often technically transcended into the ethnographic category as they were adopted into native use. Therefore they might be classified as BOTH European or ethnographic depending on point of view. Naturally as military weapons in the European category these have been discussed openly in that forum since inception in 2008, and remain so.

In many cases ethnographic forms copied European and vice versa, and of course we are well aware of the ubiquitous use of European blades in native edged weapons, whether via trade or other means.

One favorite notation I recall from some time ago pertains to the British cavalry in India during the Sikh wars, and the British noted the superior and deadly skills of these warriors with their tulwar sabers. What horrified them even more was when they discovered that these tulwars were equipped with old British M1796 saber blades, finely honed.

One of the most intriguing anomalies in collecting and studying native edged weapons are the many examples of for example, ethnographic swords with European blades and conversely European hilted forms with Middle Eastern blades etc.

I agree that discretion and latitude must be factored in the content of items and subjects in discussions, and these must be weighed on merit and influence on the overall character of our discussions and our forums in general.
As noted, the often insidious issue of commercialism and dealings are likely one of the most damaging effects that threaten the character and content of our pages . As I have always believed, we all learn here together, and that is the most important thing.

Again, I had not imagined this thread becoming a platform for these matters, but hope that the subject might be satisfied. The topic of the thread remains the Spandau machine gun, an evolution of the Maxim gun of late 19th c. and famously represented by the German fighter planes of WWI.

One thing I gained in the look into these guns here: I had not realized that the purpose of the much perforated shield on these was to air cool the barrel. Apparently, the guns of this type used in the field were water cooled, in what I found.

:):)

UPDATE
 

I would like to thank everyone out there who is reading this, and those who have contributed, and its great knowing there is such interest in WWI aviation. This of course entails the brave men who flew these fragile machines in combat and here we have looked into the arms they relied on in those combats.

My interest in aviation has been lifelong, and in the years I was in Nashville, I was 'grounded' for over a month with medical issues. At this time in the 1990s I had been studying WWI aviation and building the tiny air force of model planes from kits. Not content with decals, I wanted to research the individual pilots as they had their individual insignia etc. so I struggled with painting these tiny images on these. The more I got into the history, the more obsessive it became.

This was how I ended up meeting Mr. Hume Parks, who lived there in Nashville, and I found he had 'some' Spandau guns from WWI. I went to visit him, and as he took me to a room, it had a huge steel door that reminded me of a vault. As he opened the door....I gasped as there were WALLS of machine guns....there were I think 28 Spandau's; and array of other types as well as walls of pistols, rifles etc.

In those days in 1996, I learned some things on these guns but naturally barely scratched the surface. A machinist, he had his own shop to fabricate necessary parts to restore many guns, and he was a gunsmith as well.

I wanted to pay tribute to this great man who did so much to preserve history. He was into cannons and field guns as well, and wrote a book on Civil War cannon.

Here is Mr. Malcolm "Hume" Parks !1913-2012) in my visit 1996, and the photos I found that led to my 'SPANDAU BALLET' theme. I had not seen these for many years, so a fun memory.