is this real or a copy.

terry1956 · 1st October 2012, 12:49 PM

hi chaps, what do you make of this helmet. is it real or a copy. what date you place on it, thanks, michael

A Senefelder · 1st October 2012, 01:59 PM

This is of course based on the pics which isn't obiviously the best way to tell but constructionally it looks okay. This appeares to be the typical munnitions troopers three bar pot helmet usually associated with the ECW. The bowl is constructed in two halves, the comb on one half being a little longer so it can be crimped over the other half to join them together along with a rivet front and back at the brow line where the halves overlap. The tail appears rather than actually being made of several lames to have a false ridge hammered in to give the impression of several lames, something that was typical of mass produced munnitions helmets of this type. The punched hole at the bottom of the tail/neck plate is somthing often seen both in England and on the continent ( i've owned helmets of several types including cabbacettes with it ) for suspending the helmet from a thong when not wearing it. Square cut washers was typical especially of munnitions armour. I don't see any particular reason to not think this piece isn't good but as mentioned above this is just based on photos.

terry1956 · 1st October 2012, 05:19 PM

thanks Senefelder, its always nice to have a second view on things. michael

A Senefelder · 1st October 2012, 06:18 PM

I forgot to mention it but the leathers for the cheek plates/ear flaps are replacements. These straps do not usually travel the ages well so having replacemenst isn't particularlly unusual.

terry1956 · 1st October 2012, 09:44 PM

thanks again, michael

Atlantia · 2nd October 2012, 04:10 PM

Terry,
Have a really close look inside the crest seam. I've seen some really good looking repros recently and a coule had telltale signs in the crest seam. One had a line of electirc weld that the maker couldn't get in to grind out

Overall, on first glance it looks a good helmet, but a minute examination of these is always needed now.

terry1956 · 9th October 2012, 09:57 PM

hi, no there is not any weld in the helmet, but what the pictures do not show is what looks like an old sword cut to the front upper section. this would just be the place for a cavalrymans blow to hit the helmet. will try to get some better pictures showing this. michael

theswordcollector · 2nd November 2012, 02:34 PM

The English have been making really good fakes since the late 1990's not including all the Victorian decrotive pieces being sold as period, but on the new stuff they alway leave welding burn ditches that they cant grind deep enough to get out. I even had a cabasset helemt x-rayed one time to show the weld to prove it to the English dealer who sold it to me. I see on ebay all the time people buying these repros for big money listed as original selling from England even the U.S. . I think this helmet looks A ok to me no doubts. the leather replacement could have been done better :-)

1st October 2012, 12:49 PM	#1
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	is this real or a copy. hi chaps, what do you make of this helmet. is it real or a copy. what date you place on it, thanks, michael Attached Images

1st October 2012, 05:19 PM	#3
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	in reply thanks Senefelder, its always nice to have a second view on things. michael

1st October 2012, 09:44 PM	#5
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	reply thanks again, michael

9th October 2012, 09:57 PM	#7
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	in answer hi, no there is not any weld in the helmet, but what the pictures do not show is what looks like an old sword cut to the front upper section. this would just be the place for a cavalrymans blow to hit the helmet. will try to get some better pictures showing this. michael

2nd November 2012, 02:34 PM	#8
theswordcollector Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Berlin Posts: 48	looks goood to me yes but look out for the modern Repros on Ebay The English have been making really good fakes since the late 1990's not including all the Victorian decrotive pieces being sold as period, but on the new stuff they alway leave welding burn ditches that they cant grind deep enough to get out. I even had a cabasset helemt x-rayed one time to show the weld to prove it to the English dealer who sold it to me. I see on ebay all the time people buying these repros for big money listed as original selling from England even the U.S. . I think this helmet looks A ok to me no doubts. the leather replacement could have been done better :-)

1st October 2012, 01:59 PM	#2
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	This is of course based on the pics which isn't obiviously the best way to tell but constructionally it looks okay. This appeares to be the typical munnitions troopers three bar pot helmet usually associated with the ECW. The bowl is constructed in two halves, the comb on one half being a little longer so it can be crimped over the other half to join them together along with a rivet front and back at the brow line where the halves overlap. The tail appears rather than actually being made of several lames to have a false ridge hammered in to give the impression of several lames, something that was typical of mass produced munnitions helmets of this type. The punched hole at the bottom of the tail/neck plate is somthing often seen both in England and on the continent ( i've owned helmets of several types including cabbacettes with it ) for suspending the helmet from a thong when not wearing it. Square cut washers was typical especially of munnitions armour. I don't see any particular reason to not think this piece isn't good but as mentioned above this is just based on photos.

1st October 2012, 06:18 PM	#4
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	I forgot to mention it but the leathers for the cheek plates/ear flaps are replacements. These straps do not usually travel the ages well so having replacemenst isn't particularlly unusual.

2nd October 2012, 04:10 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Terry, Have a really close look inside the crest seam. I've seen some really good looking repros recently and a coule had telltale signs in the crest seam. One had a line of electirc weld that the maker couldn't get in to grind out Overall, on first glance it looks a good helmet, but a minute examination of these is always needed now.