Heavy/large talwar / thega sword

francantolin · 13th January 2021, 07:27 PM

Hello dear members,

I wanted to share with you this big talwar / thega sword that I just received,
seems it was made for fight ,
it has ( sadly) marks/cracks on the blade.!...
I have to clean it...

I'ts a long one, 95cm / 37,5 inches long and heavy, 1,3kg / 2,9 pounds

Is it usual to see such long/ large pieces ?

the seller told me it was more than one meter long but it's still a nice catch

The large blade has a yelman, the thick blade structure is really thin and sharp after the yelman at the end/tip of the blade.

The hilt seems made of a single iron piece and there is an interesting stamp at the basis of the blade,
does anyone know where it can come from ?

An old mughal model ? 19th or 18th century ?

Kind regards

francantolin · 13th January 2021, 07:29 PM

mark on the blade / yelman...

Kmaddock · 13th January 2021, 08:13 PM

Hi

Nice item alright but mine is bigger ;-)

see this thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26169

They would be a good pairing. There are no markings on mine at all. I have since cleaned it up and should put up a few pictures, there is some information on the thread I started about possible origins of such large swords also.

Regards and keep well,

Ken

francantolin · 13th January 2021, 09:01 PM

Really Nice !
Congrats !!

francantolin · 14th January 2021, 12:11 PM

Does anybody know the ''flower'' stamp of the blade ?

a family / regional stamp
or an arsenal mark ?

For the blade, do you think an etching can be useful ?

corrado26 · 14th January 2021, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

For the blade, do you think an etching can be useful ?

After my opinion an etching of an old blade can never be useful, it detracts from the value of the whole piece and takes off its longtime preserved original condition!

Jim McDougall · 14th January 2021, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

After my opinion an etching of an old blade can never be useful, it detracts from the value of the whole piece and takes off its longtime preserved original condition!

Amen!!! and hallelujah! That exactly says it all Udo!
from an arms historian view, that patina is well earned, and pretty much history itself. Aside from stabilizing active corrosion, and minimal repair to damage the rest should be left alone.
The reason I always collected weapons in often rough condition was that I knew they had not been 'dolled up' by dealers, and I could see them as they were in situ in their time. This is important in learning from a forensics point of view, and as I appreciated them 'as they were' and was not displaying them, it was a good arrangement. I call them my 'old warriors'

The 'flower' stamp probably represents a lotus, and is in a strategic position on a tulwar blade, in the upper, ricasso quadrant to left of langet seen on many NW Indian tulwars. Often these are cartouches having Urdu script, and other devices.
There is no definitive compendium of Indian markings for arsenals, but these do not seem to be those, and Indian makers as far as I have known seldom place personal marks.
These seem more a kind of state or perhaps imbuement of some sort given the consistent placement in same location on blade.

Jim McDougall · 14th January 2021, 05:32 PM

Here are some stamps of similar nature.
The first is thought to be from perhaps Gujerat and the Kattee people who use the katar as a key symbol of state. The trisula is of course an important Hindu symbol.

Next is a tulwar with the upper ricasso quadrant stamp, I believe Urdu cartouche and the trisula again in key blade location.

Next a tulwar with possbly Urdu cartouche and close up in next image.

Next a khanda with katar and trisula .

mariusgmioc · 14th January 2021, 06:56 PM

The blade looks 19th century Indian.

Etching only makes sense if it is wootz or pattern welded.

Will M · 14th January 2021, 07:49 PM

You described the blade with having "marks,cracks" When new these blades would not show defects in their manufacture but with repeat corrosion and cleanings these marks begin to appear which proves it is an authentic blade.
I have one Tegha sword with a "T" back section, curved heavy blade and has eye lash markings. Many variations within the type makes collecting interesting.

francantolin · 22nd January 2021, 02:05 PM

Hello,
Thank you all,
specially Jim for all your precious informations

,

I wanted to show you the sword ''cleaned'' a little (sorry for the late answer !)
I didn't like the way it was kept before:
It was to shiny on some parts and a lot of rust deposit on other + scratches of big grain sandpaper on the blade...
I just made it more homogeneous using sand paper 400 to 1000 with WD40,
( and a lot of patience

I think it's better, in respect to this nice old weapon !!
I'll have to find someone for make a new scabbard

Will M · 22nd January 2021, 06:58 PM

Your blade tip photo makes me wonder if an acid etch would bring out a pattern in the steel? If not it does not take much to reverse the look.

13th January 2021, 07:27 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Heavy/large talwar / thega sword Hello dear members, I wanted to share with you this big talwar / thega sword that I just received, seems it was made for fight , it has ( sadly) marks/cracks on the blade.!... I have to clean it... I'ts a long one, 95cm / 37,5 inches long and heavy, 1,3kg / 2,9 pounds Is it usual to see such long/ large pieces ? the seller told me it was more than one meter long but it's still a nice catch The large blade has a yelman, the thick blade structure is really thin and sharp after the yelman at the end/tip of the blade. The hilt seems made of a single iron piece and there is an interesting stamp at the basis of the blade, does anyone know where it can come from ? An old mughal model ? 19th or 18th century ? Kind regards Attached Images

13th January 2021, 07:29 PM	#2
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	mark on the blade / yelman... Attached Images

14th January 2021, 05:32 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Here are some stamps of similar nature. The first is thought to be from perhaps Gujerat and the Kattee people who use the katar as a key symbol of state. The trisula is of course an important Hindu symbol. Next is a tulwar with the upper ricasso quadrant stamp, I believe Urdu cartouche and the trisula again in key blade location. Next a tulwar with possbly Urdu cartouche and close up in next image. Next a khanda with katar and trisula . Attached Images

22nd January 2021, 02:05 PM	#11
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Hello, Thank you all, specially Jim for all your precious informations , I wanted to show you the sword ''cleaned'' a little (sorry for the late answer !) I didn't like the way it was kept before: It was to shiny on some parts and a lot of rust deposit on other + scratches of big grain sandpaper on the blade... I just made it more homogeneous using sand paper 400 to 1000 with WD40, ( and a lot of patience I think it's better, in respect to this nice old weapon !! I'll have to find someone for make a new scabbard Attached Images

13th January 2021, 08:13 PM	#3
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi Nice item alright but mine is bigger ;-) see this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26169 They would be a good pairing. There are no markings on mine at all. I have since cleaned it up and should put up a few pictures, there is some information on the thread I started about possible origins of such large swords also. Regards and keep well, Ken

13th January 2021, 09:01 PM	#4
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Really Nice ! Congrats !!

14th January 2021, 12:11 PM	#5
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Does anybody know the ''flower'' stamp of the blade ? a family / regional stamp or an arsenal mark ? For the blade, do you think an etching can be useful ?

14th January 2021, 06:56 PM	#9
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	The blade looks 19th century Indian. Etching only makes sense if it is wootz or pattern welded.

14th January 2021, 07:49 PM	#10
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	You described the blade with having "marks,cracks" When new these blades would not show defects in their manufacture but with repeat corrosion and cleanings these marks begin to appear which proves it is an authentic blade. I have one Tegha sword with a "T" back section, curved heavy blade and has eye lash markings. Many variations within the type makes collecting interesting.

22nd January 2021, 06:58 PM	#12
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Your blade tip photo makes me wonder if an acid etch would bring out a pattern in the steel? If not it does not take much to reverse the look.