A rather nice golok

Flavio · 7th August 2008, 06:44 PM

And now a golok!

On the blade the writing "TIJ PA TJING 1923". The beast on the handle seems to me a lion but maybe it's only an angry dog

Brass rings on the scabbard made of nice veined wood, very hard.

I like goloks even if more than weapons often are only all working days instruments... or souvenir for western people. I hate myself to have let to go another one with an eagle handle made of horn... well I hope to find another in the future

As usual all comments are welcome

Henk · 7th August 2008, 08:51 PM

Nice golok. Probably a Tjikeroe golok and more recent than 1923. Still a well executed example.
A golok is a working tool, but in Pencak Silat a true weapon.

Lew · 7th August 2008, 09:10 PM

Nice golok! My vote is lion not dog.

Lew

Flavio · 8th August 2008, 01:33 AM

Yep, Lew, seems the same

Flavio · 9th August 2008, 09:15 AM

Hello Henk, can you explain why do you think that the golok could be more recent than the date? From what I can see the general aspect seems quite old, but my eyes are not so well educated...

Thank you

kronckew · 9th August 2008, 11:05 AM

i've seen a few with similar motif, yours seems better executed than mine, which has a number of repairs to the scabbard and a more rudimentary lion grip. not sure how old this one is, metal bands are steel.

Henk · 9th August 2008, 03:28 PM

Flavio,

Although hard to judge from pictures I noticed that the hulu and the scabbard mouth are made from rather new wood and differ from the lower part of the scabbard. To be honest I think an older scabbard part was taken an a new mouth was carved for it to fit this golok. Also the blade has an appearance that reminds me to more recent goloks I've seen.
I don't take the writing on a golok blade very serious. To be honest, older goloks don't have writing on the blade. That's a more recent development.

But it is still an atractive golok.

Flavio · 9th August 2008, 03:38 PM

Thank you Henk for your reply

About the hulu I'm with you it's a recent replecement for the mouth piece.... well I don't know

About the writing I have also this golok that shows a writing and it's really a nice one... what do you think? Could this well done and decorated piece be old as the writing says?

Thanks for the help

FLavio

Flavio · 9th August 2008, 04:13 PM

And this is the one that is not more mine

It's a nice one with well made carvings on horn but the blade is not so good and quite similar to the one that I posted here.

All this just for fun and show pieces and learn

Thank you Henk

Henk · 9th August 2008, 05:05 PM

Flavio,

I'm not an expert on the field of the golok. The mouth piece matches with the hulu. Same dark color and wood structure. Completely different from the rest of the scabbard. That's what I see on the picture.

The Tjikeroe golok is very well executed and seems to have some age. Still the Tjikeroe writing is done for souvenir purposes for, probably in this case, the Dutch soldiers. Writing name of the place and the date is not common on Indonesian blades.

Take a look at this thread about the Tjikeroe swords. Your golok appears there as well.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=tjikeroe

Flavio · 9th August 2008, 05:31 PM

Hi Henk,

you know from pics it's too much hard to show details, but the hulu wood is different from the one from the mouth piece of the scabbard that is the same of the handle...

Flavio

Lew · 9th August 2008, 05:36 PM

I must agree with Henk the goloks with dates seem to to made for the Dutch consumers, I have a few goloks minus the writing and they seem plainer not as fancy.

Lew

Henk · 9th August 2008, 07:37 PM

Flavio,
That's why I already said that it is hard to judge from a picture. I can only tell what I see on the picture. You have the golok in your hands

.

Lew,
That's a very nice golok. If I'm not mistaken it is a West-javanese golok.

Flavio · 9th August 2008, 08:35 PM

Hi Lew! Yes I'm with you and Henk, the ones with date and place were made for sure for Dutches, but if the golok is nice who minds? not me!

Yours is very nice!!

Henk no problem at all, thank you for the input and the help!!

Who want to show his goloks? come on boy

Maurice · 9th August 2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Who want to show his goloks?

Mine still in auction. when the auction is over I'll post a picture.

Rick · 10th August 2008, 12:37 AM

I'm not sure all of these Tjikeroeh Goloks went into tourist hands .

My example shows unmistakable signs of attack and parry .
Someone had to use it, and in a hurry .

Lew · 10th August 2008, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm not sure all of these Tjikeroeh Goloks went into tourist hands .

My example shows unmistakable signs of attack and parry .
Someone had to use it, and in a hurry .

Rick is quite right!

We really need to be careful when we apply the tourist label to older swords and daggers. These goloks are not cheap copies they were more likely sold to the local Dutch living and working or soldieringi in the area and were used as a back up side arm or hunting knife. I'm sure one of these goloks would come in quite handy when walking through a narrow dark street somewhere in these towns.
Btw,Here are two more from my closet

top one seems mid 20th century the bottom is early 20th century.
Lew

Henk · 10th August 2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Rick is quite right!

We really need to be careful when we apply the tourist label to older swords and daggers. These goloks are not cheap copies they were more likely sold to the local Dutch living and working or soldieringi in the area and were used as a back up side arm or hunting knife. I'm sure one of these goloks would come in quite handy when walking through a narrow dark street somewhere in these towns.
Btw,Here are two more from my closet

top one seems mid 20th century the bottom is early 20th century.
Lew

I fully agree. I don't apply the tourist label at once to these weapons. I think that these weapons where mainly made for the Dutch who brought these weapons to Holland as a souvenir or should we better say as a gift for friends and relatives. Dating and placing the name of a city on the blade wasn't an Indonesian habbit.
The Dutch working and living there used these weapons certainly as side arm or hunting knife. But I know that the Dutch also used the common local weapons for these activities. I don't think that there was any need for a weapon with a date on the blade.
The Tjikroe dated blades and other well known military souvenir keris where brought to Holland in the fifties by the young soldiers after service or during their leave.
Better see these weapons in historical perspective like the well known KNIL madura souvenir keris, with the wrangka as a lying lion and the ukiran in the shape of a woman or male figure, but with a real old keris blade. In my opinion these weapons certainly should be part of a collection referring to the historical KNIL period. Souvenir? Yes, and souvenirs aren't always cheap worthles stuff. Tourist? No!!

sjors · 11th August 2008, 09:50 AM

Here's another lionhead golok.
It's in a bad shape but this is how my parents brought it to the Netherlands in 1952. The original (silver?) bands on the scabbard were all gone and some were replaced by copper ones. The mouth of the scabbard is also gone and the (layered) blade has no markings. My father told me how he realy used it in Indonesia as a gardentool.

Flavio · 11th August 2008, 12:36 PM

A nice gardentool

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjors

My father told me how he realy used it in Indonesia as a gardentool.

DaveA · 31st May 2013, 09:43 PM

To aid search of the forum and cross reference, I list here the various spellings of the name of the hamlet inscribed on this weapon and some other nearby hamlets:

TIJ PA TJING same as Tjipatjing same as Cipacing (modern name)

Cipacing is located in the Sumedang Regency, about 30-40km east of Bandung.

See also these other hamlets where these Dutch East Indies weapons were created c. early 1900's. There is quite a bit of good info in this forum in particular on the weapons of Tjikeroeh hamlet which likely applies to the others as well:

Tjicatjing
modern name not known

Tjikeroeh is same as Cikeruh (modern name)

7th August 2008, 06:44 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	A rather nice golok And now a golok! On the blade the writing "TIJ PA TJING 1923". The beast on the handle seems to me a lion but maybe it's only an angry dog Brass rings on the scabbard made of nice veined wood, very hard. I like goloks even if more than weapons often are only all working days instruments... or souvenir for western people. I hate myself to have let to go another one with an eagle handle made of horn... well I hope to find another in the future As usual all comments are welcome Attached Images

7th August 2008, 09:10 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Nice golok! My vote is lion not dog. Lew Attached Images

9th August 2008, 03:38 PM	#8
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you Henk for your reply About the hulu I'm with you it's a recent replecement for the mouth piece.... well I don't know About the writing I have also this golok that shows a writing and it's really a nice one... what do you think? Could this well done and decorated piece be old as the writing says? Thanks for the help FLavio Attached Images

9th August 2008, 04:13 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	And this is the one that is not more mine It's a nice one with well made carvings on horn but the blade is not so good and quite similar to the one that I posted here. All this just for fun and show pieces and learn Thank you Henk Attached Images

9th August 2008, 05:36 PM	#12
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I must agree with Henk the goloks with dates seem to to made for the Dutch consumers, I have a few goloks minus the writing and they seem plainer not as fancy. Lew Attached Images

7th August 2008, 08:51 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Nice golok. Probably a Tjikeroe golok and more recent than 1923. Still a well executed example. A golok is a working tool, but in Pencak Silat a true weapon.

8th August 2008, 01:33 AM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Yep, Lew, seems the same

9th August 2008, 09:15 AM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Henk, can you explain why do you think that the golok could be more recent than the date? From what I can see the general aspect seems quite old, but my eyes are not so well educated... Thank you

9th August 2008, 11:05 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,182	i've seen a few with similar motif, yours seems better executed than mine, which has a number of repairs to the scabbard and a more rudimentary lion grip. not sure how old this one is, metal bands are steel.

9th August 2008, 03:28 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Flavio, Although hard to judge from pictures I noticed that the hulu and the scabbard mouth are made from rather new wood and differ from the lower part of the scabbard. To be honest I think an older scabbard part was taken an a new mouth was carved for it to fit this golok. Also the blade has an appearance that reminds me to more recent goloks I've seen. I don't take the writing on a golok blade very serious. To be honest, older goloks don't have writing on the blade. That's a more recent development. But it is still an atractive golok.

9th August 2008, 05:05 PM	#10
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Flavio, I'm not an expert on the field of the golok. The mouth piece matches with the hulu. Same dark color and wood structure. Completely different from the rest of the scabbard. That's what I see on the picture. The Tjikeroe golok is very well executed and seems to have some age. Still the Tjikeroe writing is done for souvenir purposes for, probably in this case, the Dutch soldiers. Writing name of the place and the date is not common on Indonesian blades. Take a look at this thread about the Tjikeroe swords. Your golok appears there as well. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=tjikeroe

9th August 2008, 05:31 PM	#11
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Henk, you know from pics it's too much hard to show details, but the hulu wood is different from the one from the mouth piece of the scabbard that is the same of the handle... Flavio

9th August 2008, 07:37 PM	#13
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Flavio, That's why I already said that it is hard to judge from a picture. I can only tell what I see on the picture. You have the golok in your hands . Lew, That's a very nice golok. If I'm not mistaken it is a West-javanese golok.

9th August 2008, 08:35 PM	#14
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Lew! Yes I'm with you and Henk, the ones with date and place were made for sure for Dutches, but if the golok is nice who minds? not me! Yours is very nice!! Henk no problem at all, thank you for the input and the help!! Who want to show his goloks? come on boy

10th August 2008, 12:37 AM	#16
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	I'm not sure all of these Tjikeroeh Goloks went into tourist hands . My example shows unmistakable signs of attack and parry . Someone had to use it, and in a hurry .

11th August 2008, 09:50 AM	#19
sjors Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 68	another lionhead Here's another lionhead golok. It's in a bad shape but this is how my parents brought it to the Netherlands in 1952. The original (silver?) bands on the scabbard were all gone and some were replaced by copper ones. The mouth of the scabbard is also gone and the (layered) blade has no markings. My father told me how he realy used it in Indonesia as a gardentool. Attached Images

31st May 2013, 09:43 PM	#21
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Place name update, clarification To aid search of the forum and cross reference, I list here the various spellings of the name of the hamlet inscribed on this weapon and some other nearby hamlets: TIJ PA TJING same as Tjipatjing same as Cipacing (modern name) Cipacing is located in the Sumedang Regency, about 30-40km east of Bandung. See also these other hamlets where these Dutch East Indies weapons were created c. early 1900's. There is quite a bit of good info in this forum in particular on the weapons of Tjikeroeh hamlet which likely applies to the others as well: Tjicatjing modern name not known Tjikeroeh is same as Cikeruh (modern name)