Searching for a Coftgari artist in Europe

[Roland_M]

Dear forum members,

recently I was the lucky winner of a very high quality Pala Sword. It is made from super fine turkish wootz, with a clear and bright hamon and under the T-section only 2 mm thick (over the whole length of the blade), with a slightly reinforced tip.
The blade length is around 70 cm, the weight of the blade without guard is less than 500 gram. My initial guess was Parade-Sword but it has a few deeper and hundreds of tiny notches.

Now I'm looking for a Coftgari artist in Europe, because the original eight different coftgari are almost completly lost. But there are still shadows of the original coftgari. So it would be easy to restore it to its original style.

I will show more of the Pala after I finished it, because now it's too corroded but luckily enough the blade itself is in very good condition. This picture was made after removing the red rust with the blue japanese rust-eraser (rubber with sand). I can highly recommend this eraser.

Thanks for every advice and best wishes,
Roland

[mariusgmioc]

Hello Roland,

Wootz Pala... that's really a rare find! Congratulations, and good luck with the restauration process!

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello Roland,

Wootz Pala... that's really a rare find! Congratulations, and good luck with the restauration process!

Hi Marius,

I have added a picture of the sword as it is after rust removing.

I have already ordered buffalo horn and frankincense plus myrrh for the glue of the hilt. I hope it smells well after restoration .

[Sajen]

Great catch my friend! I am already curious to see the finished sword! Are the remains of the handle scales from rhino horn?

Regards,
Detlef

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Great catch my friend! I am already curious to see the finished sword! Are the remains of the handle scales from rhino horn?

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef my friend,

yes they are from rhino horn but totally corroded, partially almost mineralized.

I'm still unsure whether I make them from buffalo horn or grenadill ebony wood. Grenadill is much more beautiful than buffalo horn but I afraid not really traditional.


Regards,
Roland

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hi Detlef my friend,

yes they are from rhino horn but totally corroded, partially almost mineralized.

I'm still unsure whether I make them from buffalo horn or grenadill ebony wood. Grenadill is much more beautiful than buffalo horn but I afraid not really traditional.


Regards,
Roland

Hello Roland,

Fantastic blade and in very good condition. But didn't see too much of the koftgari.

Maybe Grenadil is not traditional, but I have certainly seen Kilij swords with antique wooden scales, although the scales may have been old replacements as well. So maybe dark dyed walnut or ebony would be better than grenadil.

The problem with buffalo horn is that it would be rather difficult to find the adequate size and quality in Europe. You may need to look to Nepal or India for replacements.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello Roland,

Fantastic blade and in very good condition. But didn't see too much of the koftgari.

Maybe Grenadil is not traditional, but I have certainly seen Kilij swords with antique wooden scales, although the scales may have been old replacements as well. So maybe dark dyed walnut or ebony would be better than grenadil.

The problem with buffalo horn is that it would be rather difficult to find the adequate size and quality in Europe. You may need to look to Nepal or India for replacements.

Hi Marius,

I have this very old wooden club. The wood is heavy, dense and has a fantastic color, perfect for the Pala. Very simpel and archaic shape. But it is a very old (up to hundreds of years old) and very rare club, so I think the club is too good for that purpose.
The club still has an old inhabitant, a mummified maggot, which was trapped inside by a resin cover. The resin cover got lost during exercising and the maggot mummy "saw" the first daylight after maybe 500 years .

What do you think is it a sacrilege?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

What do you think is it a sacrilege?

Yes!!!

[Sajen]

It don't will be a great deal to get black horn in the correct size!

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Yes!!!

Sure, I will not touch the club.

It was just because such a fantastic russet ebony wood is unavailable nowadays.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello Roland,

Fantastic blade and in very good condition. But didn't see too much of the koftgari.

Hello Marius,

this is all what's left over. Enough Information for a new koftgari.

[mariusgmioc]

Well, I don't know if it is sufficient information for new Koftgari. It seems to be rather faint to me.

As with regards to the scales, while ebony may be hard to find, you certainly have alternatives to the grenadil. Walnut is rather easy to find. Mahogany and palisander are also quite easy to get from old, broken furniture. In the end, I guess that any kind of hardwod would do since it can be dyed to look almost like ebony, but...

... probably will look better with black buffalo horn.

[David]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Well, I don't know if it is sufficient information for new Koftgari. It seems to be rather faint to me.

Personally i would have to agree with Marius on this one. While i do understand that we all have our own ideas as to what restoration is i don't see that you really have enough of the koftgari left on this blade to legitimately "return" it to its past splendor. It would be very unlikely the whatever pattern you would have an artist place on this blade would be anything like what was there before. So you would not be "restoring" the blade in that context, but inventing it anew. It's yours to do with as you please i suppose, but that might be somewhat misleading to the next generations that might become its caretaker in the future.

[ariel]

I agree. New koftgari will stick out as a sre thumb. It will be not authentic.
Same with the handle. This sword has history in it. Do not destroy it.

[Rick]

Well, if you really must; maybe something to inspire the artist whoever he might be?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=kilij

[A. G. Maisey]

If you want good quality black ebony, I suggest that you do the rounds of musical instrument makers, especially stringed instrument maker.

EDIT

See item 75, "Imported Timbers ---"

http://www.trendtimbers.com.au/complete-timber-list.php

I have dealt with these people in the past, they have always been obliging and cooperative.. Quite simply, they are timber fanatics.

You could try these people too, going back a few years I was able to buy some very large slabs of ebony from them.

http://anagote.com/timbers-sydney/

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

If you want good quality black ebony, I suggest that you do the rounds of musical instrument makers, especially stringed instrument maker.

EDIT

See item 75, "Imported Timbers ---"

http://www.trendtimbers.com.au/complete-timber-list.php

I have dealt with these people in the past, they have always been obliging and cooperative.. Quite simply, they are timber fanatics.

You could try these people too, going back a few years I was able to buy some very large slabs of ebony from them.

http://anagote.com/timbers-sydney/

Wow!

Thank you Alan! This is brilliant information!

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by ariel

I agree. New koftgari will stick out as a sre thumb. It will be not authentic.
Same with the handle. This sword has history in it. Do not destroy it.

Dear Ariel,

The hilt looks like relic state to me.

What do you suggest ?

[ariel]

Not only relic: ruined.

But the attraction is in the blade.
If one could fin a rhino handle ( by itself or on a cheap ruined blade), I would seriously consider using it. But making a new handle..... I am uncomfortable about it.
Just as drawing a new koftgari.

[Drabant1701]

I was in a very similar situation as you some time ago, Roland. I had purchased a pala sword with a grip that was totally ruined, it was made of horn but had been eaten by insects or similar. I would not have minded if it was just damaged but it was almost nothing left.

Here is my experience:
At first I wanted to make a new grip out of rhino horn, but that proved hard to aquire. I ended up makeing the grip out of ebony hard wood that was rivited with brass staffs (?). I keept the grip strap from the original, it would have been easier to make a new one as the old was not straight.

The result was ok, i kept the size from the original grip, it was however an late 19th century grip so I cant be sure of how it had looked when it was new.

I do however agree with Ariel, it does look alright but it feels wrong. It is however a difficult situation when the grip is totally broken. Finding a grip from an old sword that fits you blade would meen that you would have to use the grip strap from the new sword, and hope that the tang fits the new grip could take many years before something that fits comes your way.

One possible way to go is to find a metal grip where the grip and cross guard is in one piece, or something like the grips on an afghan poulwar.

Good luck with your project.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by ariel

If one could fin a rhino handle ( by itself or on a cheap ruined blade), I would seriously consider using it. But making a new handle.....

This is an excellent idea but I guess it would be rather difficult to put into practice. But it is worth exploring as you may never know.

I agree with you as I wouldn't touch the koftgari anyhow.

[Multumesc]

Frumoasa sabie.NOT MUCH TO BE RESTORED.Looks very good.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

Here is my experience:
At first I wanted to make a new grip out of rhino horn, but that proved hard to aquire. I ended up makeing the grip out of ebony hard wood that was rivited with brass staffs (?). I keept the grip strap from the original, it would have been easier to make a new one as the old was not straight.

Hello Drabant,

rhino horn is the original design but I decided to use either African blackwood (grenadilla) or buffalo horn because of the CITES ban. In Germany rhino horn is much more critical than ivory for example. Even as a Museum it is forbidden to present rhino horn, independent on its age.

Can you show some pictures of your restoration please?

I have added two pictures of the current state, the first side of the sword is almost done.
If one look careful, the hamon is already visible. Because of the hardness of the cutting edge, the work was pretty exhausting. I do everything without machines, only with my poor fingers.


Roland

[Drabant1701]

Here are some pictures from the restoration. As you can see it was in quite bad shape. Im not sure if it was rhino horn or something else. There was a cloth ribbon (?) wraped around it it was probably red long ago I dyed it grey and put it back.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

Here are some pictures from the restoration. As you can see it was in quite bad shape. Im not sure if it was rhino horn or something else. There was a cloth ribbon (?) wraped around it it was probably red long ago I dyed it grey and put it back.

Hello Drabant,

thank you for showing the pictures. The hilt is rhino horn. After I bought some examples of water buffalo horn, I decided to make the new hilt from old grenadilla hardwood.

I cannot share the opinion of some collectors, to leave it as it is.

It is the same for me like a good Oldtimer car. After restoration most Oldtimers are better than ever before.

Another important reason, without a restoration this blade will more and more corrode and in 100 years or so it is just a lost piece of rust and dirt.

I will keep the old handle and pins and store it carefully. So it is no problem, to set the sword back to its current state.


Roland

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Drabant1701

Here are some pictures from the restoration. As you can see it was in quite bad shape. Im not sure if it was rhino horn or something else. There was a cloth ribbon (?) wraped around it it was probably red long ago I dyed it grey and put it back.

Aaaahhhh You shouldn't dyed it in gray!!
You had the original colour & fabric!!!
The Ottomans should deport you to Gantanamo!!

Kubur

[Drabant1701]

Well is my face red now. Allthough I am pretty sure that the ribbon was not that old, I think it was but there to hold the handle together after it had started to fall apart.

[Drabant1701]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hello Drabant,

thank you for showing the pictures. The hilt is rhino horn. After I bought some examples of water buffalo horn, I decided to make the new hilt from old grenadilla hardwood.

I cannot share the opinion of some collectors, to leave it as it is.

It is the same for me like a good Oldtimer car. After restoration most Oldtimers are better than ever before.

Another important reason, without a restoration this blade will more and more corrode and in 100 years or so it is just a lost piece of rust and dirt.

I will keep the old handle and pins and store it carefully. So it is no problem, to set the sword back to its current state.


Roland

Roland, I think you should restore your sword in a way that feels right for you, there will be as many different opinions on how to resore/not restore antiques as there are collectors.

I used some gun stock oil to darken the handle with good result. Also if you want patina on brass details (such as re-cut pins) you can use ammonia to stain it.