Worth Repairing or Not?

drac2k · 4th June 2023, 05:30 PM

I often visit this site and the more I read, the more I realize what I don't know.
I have this Kris with a broken handle and what I believe is a decent blade. The carving on the handle appears to be good, but not outstanding. Is it worth replacing the handle or should I just trade it off? The blade measures 16.25" long.

Sajen · 4th June 2023, 07:28 PM

Hello Drac2k,

The blade is in my opinion a East Java/Madura blade, the handle is a Donoriko handle. Is there a scabbard? I personally would replace the handle.

Regards,
Detlef

drac2k · 4th June 2023, 09:04 PM

Thanks, Sajen.There wasn't a scabbard. How old do you think the blade is and is it worth investing in a handle as a good one can be somewhat pricey?

Sajen · 4th June 2023, 09:24 PM

Difficult question! I would have a handle.

But you would need a scabbard as well which would be much more difficult. Would like to read what others think.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 4th June 2023, 10:14 PM

In Madura or Jawa this hilt could be recarved, outside of there it needs to be replaced.

This would have been a nice hilt, & to get an old one of similar quality will cost, but in my opinion it would be money well spent.

Yes, it is a Madura blade, most probably second half 19th century.

It also needs a scabbard, and as mentioned, this would not be easy.

Rick · 4th June 2023, 11:08 PM

Look what just appeared in my mailbox.

This came from an ebay seller; so they are out there.

drac2k · 5th June 2023, 12:10 AM

I am very thankful for all of the insightful comments; Is it a stupid question to ask if it is economically viable to have the Kris sent to Madura or Jawa to have the handle recarved and a scabbard made?

kayoba84 · 5th June 2023, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

I am very thankful for all of the insightful comments; Is it a stupid question to ask if it is economically viable to have the Kris sent to Madura or Jawa to have the handle recarved and a scabbard made?

Am not sure where you are but if you send the hilt to Malaysia, Indonesia or Thailand, it can be patched and repaired. You only need to send the keris if you want to get a new sampir and batang made, or you can get a "sampir tumpang", that is you can buy a used/ old set ...but you need to guestimate the fit based on the length of the blade and perhaps too the dimensions of the ganjar/ aring.

Whether or not it makes economical sense, that is subjective. If you need contacts in the countries mentioned, I know that many members of this group can help connect you.

Good luck

Gavin Nugent · 5th June 2023, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayoba84

Am not sure where you are but if you send the hilt to Malaysia, Indonesia or Thailand, it can be patched and repaired. You only need to send the keris if you want to get a new sampir and batang made, or you can get a "sampir tumpang", that is you can buy a used/ old set ...but you need to guestimate the fit based on the length of the blade and perhaps too the dimensions of the ganjar/ aring.

Whether or not it makes economical sense, that is subjective. If you need contacts in the countries mentioned, I know that many members of this group can help connect you.

Good luck

It is the best places to be done.

Be very cautious though, blades cannot be imported without permits, although many get through, equally, they cannot be exported... and will be stopped by post and customs... I opt to resin cast any bare blades now, and make two castings as they can sometimes be broken in the carving process...

A. G. Maisey · 5th June 2023, 06:56 AM

Personally, I would not consider for one instant sending this keris to either Jawa or Madura for a wrongko.

Never in a million years.

But I am very risk averse & I have better than 50 years experience with Bali, Jawa, Madura & Indonesia in general, as well as the people who do this work.

It might be viable to seek out somebody who works with keris online --- everybody I know is old school & not at all tuned into modern communication.

You could try ordering a new or used wrongko and fit the blade yourself. I'd order new, the blade fitting is not difficult, but it is painstaking & you do need patience.

jagabuwana · 5th June 2023, 08:25 AM

Hello Alan, when you say that the blade fitting is painstaking, are you just thinking of carving out the inlet for the gonjo? Or are you also factoring in hollowing out the gandar?

A. G. Maisey · 5th June 2023, 02:03 PM

The gandar is pretty straightforward if you have the right tools, you need a segrek. If no segrek, you just splitn it down the sides and fit the blade that way. The painstaking part is fitting the gonjo, it is oil on the metal gently insert, scrape away the oil marks on the wood. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat interminably.

There's more to the total job than that, of course, but it is all doable with patience.

David · 5th June 2023, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Personally, I would not consider for one instant sending this keris to either Jawa or Madura for a wrongko.

Never in a million years.

But I am very risk averse & I have better than 50 years experience with Bali, Jawa, Madura & Indonesia in general, as well as the people who do this work.

It might be viable to seek out somebody who works with keris online --- everybody I know is old school & not at all tuned into modern communication.

You could try ordering a new or used wrongko and fit the blade yourself. I'd order new, the blade fitting is not difficult, but it is painstaking & you do need patience.

I agree with Alan and would really think twice (or three or four times

) before i would send a keris back to Indonesia for a refitting. But as suggested, you may be able to find an old wrongko and refit it to your blade if you have the skills. You may even get lucky and find an old sheath that already has a reasonable fit. But i don't see many old, unmated wrongko on eBay anymore.
The possibility does also exist to get you hands on a new wrongko that has not yet had the opening cut for a blade. This is a much more ambitious project that refitting a blade to a used wrongko, and probably requires more skills, but it can be done. I speak from experience as i did do this once for a keris in my own collection. Unfortunately i am not very skilled in this craft, but did manage to get a somewhat passage job done. Far from perfect, but i can live with the imperfection. As you can see one of the photos, the blade does sit a bit "proud" in the sheath and my fitting in not quite like a glove, but it works. When i received this sheath it was unstained/finished and the was just a small starter hole in the Gambar and the Gandar was separated form it. The pendok is brass and i had a nice silver plating job done on it. Though not at all perfect it was a fun and educational process for me.
As for the hilt, i would search for a new one. You can find hilts on ePray that could serve this keris well that would not be too expensive. Probably not antique ones with this level of carving, but reasonable examples that will serve their purpose. Well carved antique ones would, of course, not be inexpensive. You can also find various online sellers, whose names i will not mention here due to forum rules, who regularly stock hilts of various styles and eras for sale. While this hilt probably could be repaired i believe it would probably cost you more to do that than to find a replacement. As has been pointed out, this is a Madura keris so you will probably want to be looking for appropriate hilt forms.

drac2k · 5th June 2023, 05:49 PM

Once again I am grateful for all of the comments! The replies to my post have been very educational to me.
My plan of action will be(God Willing), to carry the Kris to the Baltimore Show next year and search out a proper handle and possibly a scabbard with the guidance (hopefully), of some of the forum members who I have met there before. At the show, there is a vendor whose father married an Indonesian woman many years ago, who made many trips to her country and brought back literally tons of items; he has passed, but his son, has taken over his spot; he is knowledgeable, he has loads of inventory, and he is reasonable.
Once I have found a handle, I will not discard the old one but rather put it in a drawer until if and/or when an opportunity should present itself for its rehabilitation.
Having a sheath, while nice, isn't of great importance to me, however, I have noted the spirituality that the Kris, in general, is held by the Forum Community and I am wondering if I am committing some breach of etiquette by not having a scabbard?

Sajen · 6th June 2023, 07:15 AM

Here you can see an old blade from my collection I've given a "new" old sarung (scabbard): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=keris+kebo

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 6th June 2023, 08:39 AM

David, the degree to which this gonjo is proud of the wrongko is in my opinion not really any sort of inadequacy. In Solo a blade that is a perfect fit in the dry season can look pretty much like your keris in the wet season.

Keris that I have packed in Solo that have been a perfect fit in the wrongko when packed have looked like yours after a few weeks in Australia.

Wood moves. It is natural & normal.

Take your keris into the Mexican desert it might become a perfect fit.

Actually, in very old keris, the normal fit was for the gonjo to be proud of the wrongko, just as many Bugis style keris still are.

4th June 2023, 05:30 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,231	Worth Repairing or Not? I often visit this site and the more I read, the more I realize what I don't know. I have this Kris with a broken handle and what I believe is a decent blade. The carving on the handle appears to be good, but not outstanding. Is it worth replacing the handle or should I just trade it off? The blade measures 16.25" long. Attached Images

4th June 2023, 11:08 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Not An Offer // Coincidence Look what just appeared in my mailbox. This came from an ebay seller; so they are out there. Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 4th June 2023 at 11:21 PM.

5th June 2023, 05:49 PM	#14
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,231	Once again I am grateful for all of the comments! The replies to my post have been very educational to me. My plan of action will be(God Willing), to carry the Kris to the Baltimore Show next year and search out a proper handle and possibly a scabbard with the guidance (hopefully), of some of the forum members who I have met there before. At the show, there is a vendor whose father married an Indonesian woman many years ago, who made many trips to her country and brought back literally tons of items; he has passed, but his son, has taken over his spot; he is knowledgeable, he has loads of inventory, and he is reasonable. Once I have found a handle, I will not discard the old one but rather put it in a drawer until if and/or when an opportunity should present itself for its rehabilitation. Having a sheath, while nice, isn't of great importance to me, however, I have noted the spirituality that the Kris, in general, is held by the Forum Community and I am wondering if I am committing some breach of etiquette by not having a scabbard? Last edited by drac2k; 5th June 2023 at 06:47 PM. Reason: to add proper context

6th June 2023, 07:15 AM	#15
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Here you can see an old blade from my collection I've given a "new" old sarung (scabbard): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=keris+kebo Regards, Detlef Attached Images

4th June 2023, 07:28 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Drac2k, The blade is in my opinion a East Java/Madura blade, the handle is a Donoriko handle. Is there a scabbard? I personally would replace the handle. Regards, Detlef

4th June 2023, 09:04 PM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,231	Thanks, Sajen.There wasn't a scabbard. How old do you think the blade is and is it worth investing in a handle as a good one can be somewhat pricey?

4th June 2023, 09:24 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Difficult question! I would have a handle. But you would need a scabbard as well which would be much more difficult. Would like to read what others think. Regards, Detlef

4th June 2023, 10:14 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	In Madura or Jawa this hilt could be recarved, outside of there it needs to be replaced. This would have been a nice hilt, & to get an old one of similar quality will cost, but in my opinion it would be money well spent. Yes, it is a Madura blade, most probably second half 19th century. It also needs a scabbard, and as mentioned, this would not be easy.

5th June 2023, 12:10 AM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,231	I am very thankful for all of the insightful comments; Is it a stupid question to ask if it is economically viable to have the Kris sent to Madura or Jawa to have the handle recarved and a scabbard made?

5th June 2023, 06:56 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Personally, I would not consider for one instant sending this keris to either Jawa or Madura for a wrongko. Never in a million years. But I am very risk averse & I have better than 50 years experience with Bali, Jawa, Madura & Indonesia in general, as well as the people who do this work. It might be viable to seek out somebody who works with keris online --- everybody I know is old school & not at all tuned into modern communication. You could try ordering a new or used wrongko and fit the blade yourself. I'd order new, the blade fitting is not difficult, but it is painstaking & you do need patience.

5th June 2023, 08:25 AM	#11
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Hello Alan, when you say that the blade fitting is painstaking, are you just thinking of carving out the inlet for the gonjo? Or are you also factoring in hollowing out the gandar?

5th June 2023, 02:03 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	The gandar is pretty straightforward if you have the right tools, you need a segrek. If no segrek, you just splitn it down the sides and fit the blade that way. The painstaking part is fitting the gonjo, it is oil on the metal gently insert, scrape away the oil marks on the wood. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat interminably. There's more to the total job than that, of course, but it is all doable with patience.

6th June 2023, 08:39 AM	#16
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	David, the degree to which this gonjo is proud of the wrongko is in my opinion not really any sort of inadequacy. In Solo a blade that is a perfect fit in the dry season can look pretty much like your keris in the wet season. Keris that I have packed in Solo that have been a perfect fit in the wrongko when packed have looked like yours after a few weeks in Australia. Wood moves. It is natural & normal. Take your keris into the Mexican desert it might become a perfect fit. Actually, in very old keris, the normal fit was for the gonjo to be proud of the wrongko, just as many Bugis style keris still are.