what kind of sword?

ilias · 16th January 2009, 10:28 AM

Hi everyone.This sword is offered for sale.
Iron guard with floral designs.Can anyone tell the origin of this sword?Is it Polish or Hungarian or Persian?THanks in advance

ariel · 16th January 2009, 02:29 PM

See page 3 of this thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=gaddara
Astonishing similarity!

ilias · 16th January 2009, 03:11 PM

Dear Ariel.
Thanks for your reply.The thread was very enlightening.The similarity realy is ashtonishing.The hilt I believe is exactly the same.What about the blade?Does it seems right to you?Because it is more curved than the Irani Gaddara that you have showed.

ariel · 16th January 2009, 04:12 PM

It also does not have the etched cartouche. But they are hand-made, not mass-produced in China:-)
I'd like to read a discussion!

ilias · 16th January 2009, 08:27 PM

As i see the images again and again I wonder if there is any chance the blade to be an indian blade remounted with that hilt?Can anyone do a suggestion about the age of this sword?
Ariel as I read the past threads you said that the Irani Gaddaras that you have see are about 18th & 19th c.
Do you believe that the age of this sword is so?
Also I am confused as you said that these swords are handmade and not a China production.Do you believe that is recent ?
Sorry for so many questions that I make but because I am interested to buy it I want to know if it is a right purchase.
Thanks
Ilias

ariel · 17th January 2009, 04:19 AM

I do not know the age of this sword.
I suspect it to be 18-19th century.
The "China" comment was in jest: there are differences between the 2 examples and this is understandable, since they are not "mass-produced".
No, repeat: no, I do not think it was made in China.
Mine is very heavy and the blade is strange: when polished, it suggests a " damascus-like" pattern, but nothing obvious is revealed with etching. Perhaps, I am overdoing it? The pattern may be so subtle and small-grained, that my clumsy attempts with very diluted ferric oxide or even vinegar are masking it.
Or, it may just be plain steel...

ilias · 17th January 2009, 10:31 AM

Dear Ariel
Thanks for your reply.As about the attempt tha you have made to see if it has a damascus pattern may I suggest the only way that I have seen results at danascus blades?It is a combination of soda lemon and vinegar.
I wash the blade with a detergent to take all the grease that is on the blade.Then I wash it very good.After that I scrub the blade with a cutted at the middle lemon with soda powder on it.This will clean the blade perfectly.I wash it out and I dry the blade.Then I put it on hot vinegar with water.3 parts water 1vinegar.After a few moments any damascus pattern will come out perfectly.If the blade is etched for the first time and the pattern is not very clear I repeat the procces.To remove the yellow shadow fromvinegar I use a metal polish very soft.
I believe that you will see results.I have made it at a Pala sword that I have and the results were astonishing and also to an Indian tulvar.
Thanks again
Ilias

trenchwarfare · 17th January 2009, 05:19 PM

I don't know, cuz it's not my area but... The Chinese, and Indians ARE mass producing everything with a cutting edge. Lots of hand work, and topped-off with a realistic looking patina. Again, I'm not saying this piece is a fake. I don't know. I have just grown very leary in my old age. M.P.

ariel · 17th January 2009, 06:59 PM

We can ask Ilias for his impression, but mine is not modern :-)

ilias · 17th January 2009, 07:22 PM

Since I don't have the sword in my hands I can't tell if it is mass product or not.My opinion is that mabye it is an old indian blade.If I was sure I would buy it.

josh stout · 18th January 2009, 04:35 AM

It is not a type of sword I know anything about, but it looks to me like I may see an inserted edge in the picture of the tip. For me, that would make it worth a gamble.
Josh

spiral · 5th February 2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilias

It is a combination of soda lemon and vinegar.
I wash the blade with a detergent to take all the grease that is on the blade.Then I wash it very good.After that I scrub the blade with a cutted at the middle lemon with soda powder on it.

Ilias

When you say soda on the lemon what sort of soda do you mean?

Sodium carbonate {washing soda or soda ash }
Sodium bicarbonate {baking soda }
Sodium hydroxide {caustic soda ]

Cheers,
spiral

ingvar · 5th February 2009, 12:35 AM

imho, the hilt "wants" to look like XV.ct turkish saber. but they didnt make pins that bulgy back then. It also reminds of a hungaro-polish type I, with much smaller quillions.

Overall, looks like 18-19ct.

ilias · 5th February 2009, 09:38 AM

Hello spiral
The soda I use it refers Sodium bicarbonate.The thing that I want to advice you is that the vinegar must be very hot.Dont leave the sword a long time in it because you will see the surface become dull.You must watch it always and when the lines become black pull it out and clean it with soda.If the result doesn't satisfy you then use again only lemon and wash it again without touch the blade and put it in the vinegar.
Try it and I wish you the best results

spiral · 5th February 2009, 10:41 AM

Thanks Illias! Ive etched with vinigar before but only used the soda to neutralise, So I wondered if you were using a different type of soda there. Thanks for the info.

spiral

16th January 2009, 10:28 AM	#1
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	what kind of sword? Hi everyone.This sword is offered for sale. Iron guard with floral designs.Can anyone tell the origin of this sword?Is it Polish or Hungarian or Persian?THanks in advance Attached Images

16th January 2009, 02:29 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	See page 3 of this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=gaddara Astonishing similarity!

16th January 2009, 03:11 PM	#3
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Dear Ariel. Thanks for your reply.The thread was very enlightening.The similarity realy is ashtonishing.The hilt I believe is exactly the same.What about the blade?Does it seems right to you?Because it is more curved than the Irani Gaddara that you have showed.

16th January 2009, 04:12 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It also does not have the etched cartouche. But they are hand-made, not mass-produced in China:-) I'd like to read a discussion!

16th January 2009, 08:27 PM	#5
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	As i see the images again and again I wonder if there is any chance the blade to be an indian blade remounted with that hilt?Can anyone do a suggestion about the age of this sword? Ariel as I read the past threads you said that the Irani Gaddaras that you have see are about 18th & 19th c. Do you believe that the age of this sword is so? Also I am confused as you said that these swords are handmade and not a China production.Do you believe that is recent ? Sorry for so many questions that I make but because I am interested to buy it I want to know if it is a right purchase. Thanks Ilias

17th January 2009, 04:19 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not know the age of this sword. I suspect it to be 18-19th century. The "China" comment was in jest: there are differences between the 2 examples and this is understandable, since they are not "mass-produced". No, repeat: no, I do not think it was made in China. Mine is very heavy and the blade is strange: when polished, it suggests a " damascus-like" pattern, but nothing obvious is revealed with etching. Perhaps, I am overdoing it? The pattern may be so subtle and small-grained, that my clumsy attempts with very diluted ferric oxide or even vinegar are masking it. Or, it may just be plain steel...

17th January 2009, 10:31 AM	#7
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Dear Ariel Thanks for your reply.As about the attempt tha you have made to see if it has a damascus pattern may I suggest the only way that I have seen results at danascus blades?It is a combination of soda lemon and vinegar. I wash the blade with a detergent to take all the grease that is on the blade.Then I wash it very good.After that I scrub the blade with a cutted at the middle lemon with soda powder on it.This will clean the blade perfectly.I wash it out and I dry the blade.Then I put it on hot vinegar with water.3 parts water 1vinegar.After a few moments any damascus pattern will come out perfectly.If the blade is etched for the first time and the pattern is not very clear I repeat the procces.To remove the yellow shadow fromvinegar I use a metal polish very soft. I believe that you will see results.I have made it at a Pala sword that I have and the results were astonishing and also to an Indian tulvar. Thanks again Ilias

17th January 2009, 05:19 PM	#8
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	I don't know, cuz it's not my area but... The Chinese, and Indians ARE mass producing everything with a cutting edge. Lots of hand work, and topped-off with a realistic looking patina. Again, I'm not saying this piece is a fake. I don't know. I have just grown very leary in my old age. M.P.

17th January 2009, 06:59 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	We can ask Ilias for his impression, but mine is not modern :-)

17th January 2009, 07:22 PM	#10
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Since I don't have the sword in my hands I can't tell if it is mass product or not.My opinion is that mabye it is an old indian blade.If I was sure I would buy it.

18th January 2009, 04:35 AM	#11
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	It is not a type of sword I know anything about, but it looks to me like I may see an inserted edge in the picture of the tip. For me, that would make it worth a gamble. Josh

5th February 2009, 12:35 AM	#13
ingvar Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 11	imho, the hilt "wants" to look like XV.ct turkish saber. but they didnt make pins that bulgy back then. It also reminds of a hungaro-polish type I, with much smaller quillions. Overall, looks like 18-19ct.

5th February 2009, 09:38 AM	#14
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Hello spiral The soda I use it refers Sodium bicarbonate.The thing that I want to advice you is that the vinegar must be very hot.Dont leave the sword a long time in it because you will see the surface become dull.You must watch it always and when the lines become black pull it out and clean it with soda.If the result doesn't satisfy you then use again only lemon and wash it again without touch the blade and put it in the vinegar. Try it and I wish you the best results

5th February 2009, 10:41 AM	#15
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thanks Illias! Ive etched with vinigar before but only used the soda to neutralise, So I wondered if you were using a different type of soda there. Thanks for the info. spiral