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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland
Posts: 242
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Hello,
I did recieved this hilt today . On this one no flying horse or dutch crown just this symbol. I there some one that can help me with the material , it,s ivory but i.m not sure what kind. The structure is verry closed. Thanks in advance, Danny |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,222
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Maybe sperm whale ? (potvis in dutch)
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#3 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
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Hello, could you send a picture from the hole and its surrounding? guwaya |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland
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Hi Guwaya ,
Here a extra photo, Danny |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Switzerland
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Hi Danny,
Are you sure it is Ivory ? Have you made the traditional hot needle test? The lack of sharpness in the details make me think it could be molded. I may be totally wrong and in that case I apologize for such an iconoclastic view of your hilt. Regards Michel |
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#6 |
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Location: Holland
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Hi Michel,
No need to apologize, Indeed i did make the test and al that happens is a red hot needle that wil bend when i push i against the hilt. So no plastic or someting like it. |
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Hi Danny, Thank you for the extra photo. At the first view I thought as asomotif that it could be spermwhale ivory but now I think it is not as I am missing the bull's eye. I have no idea at the moment - sorry. Guwaya |
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#8 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Danny, I think it looks like Marine Ivory .
Note the interesting 'swirls' near the base in your first and second pictures I would not stake my life on it though !! ![]() |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
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Also i think it's marine ivory
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#10 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
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Hi Danny,
Sure its marine ivory, most of madura ukiran are and it shows clouds so its marine. This one is from before 1825. Got it from Peter? Regards Michel, amsterdam |
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#11 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,089
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#12 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: amsterdam holland
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hallo
danny nice hilt ,but no ivory what is nice to i have allmost the same hilt on a keris given to me in indonesia in 1970 simlar but not the same ,mine one is bone greet jan ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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#13 |
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Hi Michel,
Yes it,s from peter. But pleas explain why you think its from before 1825 ? And has some one a hilt with the same figure ? I do only know the ones with the horse , crown , epaulets etc... Danny |
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#14 | |
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The structure and color makes me think of a hilt I have.
See this old thread : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=raja+abala Quote:
There are quite a lot of sea mamals that can provide teeth that are workable : Sperm whale ? orca/killerwhale ? seacow/dujong ? Walrus ? Narwal ? Last edited by asomotif; 19th December 2009 at 10:51 PM. |
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#15 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
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![]() Quote:
![]() The question that is more difficult, at least for me, is what type of ivory is it. I also lean toward marine ivory. |
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#16 | |
Keris forum moderator
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Location: Nova Scotia
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#17 |
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Gentleman its getting a intrseting discusion.
![]() I hope that we can figure it out what kind of animal did use this teeth to eat before it did became a keris hilt .? And also i.m realy curious how old it could be. |
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#18 | |
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There have been several threads where ID-ing ivory was discussed.
A recent one with info / links and examples was this one. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...identification Quote:
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#19 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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I'm still thinking Potvis as you suggested, Henk err, Willem .
I'd be very interested in seeing an example of a bone hilt that looks anything like this . Lack of dots would negate Hippo as the source . Very nice patina and wear on this jejeran. I love the Sun face . Last edited by Rick; 20th December 2009 at 06:09 PM. |
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#20 | ||
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Location: The Netherlands
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Do you have examples of this bull eye effect ? Quote:
![]() Best regards, Willem |
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#21 |
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Sorry Willem .
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#22 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 45
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Do you have examples of this bull eye effect ? Sorry - but I don't have. Guwaya |
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#23 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Hello Danny, maybe this is interesting for you,
in a Dutch-forum it's said: that the image suggest: the sun of Solo. The (royal) Madurese wanted to show that their family was related to the Sunan, (See the arms of the Sunan: there are sunbeams in processed) (hope I have translated well) ![]() to see the original topic with picture: http://www.dekris.nl/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=65 |
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#24 |
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Hallo Sirek,
Thank you for youre input. It,s a intresting opinion , is the some one else that also have this opinion? Sirek if you have more intresting info you can pm me if you want ( gewoon nederlands ) regards, Danny |
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#25 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Well if that is the same Semar who posts here perhaps he will join this conversation with further information. I love the carving of the one on the other forum. Can you post it here Semar, for comparison?
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#26 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: amsterdam holland
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hai again david
i do not say ,his kris is bone ,mine is but i do not think it is ivory like the stuff from a elephant i might come from a other animal photos on forum ,yes we can do and yes we will do afther i made mine trip to asia mine photo are never good and sharp so i will let some one do it to go back to the hilt it is very nice ,but i woder a bit over the sharpness ,like michel did say grt vampire ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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I think we are looking at real wear and patina here Jan .
If that sucker is molded then someone went to an awful lot of trouble to create a forgery . |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: amsterdam holland
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hallo
rick mine old friend a moment of peace i did say nothing about a forgery and i also did not take the word molded in mine reply only if i compare it with mine pice ,it seems to miss some sharpness yes do not read me wrong one thihg it comes out of indonesia oke i have spend some years there working with pertamina oil-comp i see the hilt is from there and it is no elephant ivory but a other animal and for all reasons is it handmade also in asia some are made with other meth, oke the big question is ,is danny happy with it yes oke i only did try to put mine dime in this and rick i think we started of on the wrong foot yes let say i did oke ,soon it is new year let it be give me your adress will mail you nice book st claus grt jan ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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#29 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland
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Rick,
i also think it,s realy age wear on the hilt. i can post this one on the other forum to look if there wil come a reaction. regards, danny |
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#30 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 168
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because the growth rings I still think that this is made from a natural material
![]() maybe for comparison some foto's of a molded grip I own: |
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