Keris malevolence?

[Green]

Most people in Malaysia and Indonesia view old antique kerises with trepidation. Since old kerises are likely to be cleaned and underwent periodic esoteric rituals many believe they have acquired certain 'penunggu' ( guardian?) in the form of either good or bad Jin (genie) or 'makhluk halus'( paranormal beings?).

Once the owner has passed on or sold the keris and the rituals are stopped, these genie/paranormal beings may start acting up !. There are many tales that members of the family where the keris is kept are disturbed in their sleep by appearance of malevolent creatures in hedious forms and having nightmares so much so that many have to get rid of these kerises or sell them off (in which case the next family will have the same experience. But like ghosts, many have tales to tell but none are actually proven.

So, I'd appreciate the keris experts in this forum to shed some light on this issue/phenomenon and if one happen to suspect that some in their collection is giving bad effect on members of the family what is the right thing to do?

I personally like keris purely from the aesthetic standpoint and completely ignore the paranormal aspct and occurences as propably just due to the effect of autosuggestion but lately one of my boys (univ grad adult and already married and don't 'believe in ghosts') is complaining about my collection as he's been getting frightening nightmares which he blamed on my keris collection!

[David]

Green, it is hard to know how to approach your question. This is not really a subject for keris "experts" to decide.
I have lived a rather esoteric spiritual live myself. I have experienced many things that have no logical answers in scientific analysis and have always adopted the philosophy that we live in a world both seen and unseen. I consider myself to be fairly sensitive to these unseen forces of nature. I never try to convince people that these experiences are real as proof is not in their nature and they are generally meant to remain personal. That said, while i have handled keris that do indeed seem to have presence and an intrinsic feeling of power i have never in all my experience with keris ever been in the presence of what i would call maleficent powers. I have well over 60 keris in my personal collection and have handled countless more. I cannot say that i have ever felt an evil presence in any of them. That said, your mileage may vary, but i am not certain what kind of useful, scholarly information we can possibly gather from such a discussion. All we would be able to talk about on this subject would be unsubstantiated feelings, myths and legends. Nothing tangible. While i respect the personal spiritual experiences that some may have in relationship to the keris, discussion of this experiences here cannot possibly lead us to any sincere conclusions on the matter.

[David]

That said, anyone feeling the need to rid themselves of any particularly maleficent or misbehaving blades is welcome to contact me privately for my mailing address...

[A. G. Maisey]

I had my first keris at age 12, a gift from my grandfather.

Sixty two years later I have around 800 keris in my custody, and during my life I have handled thousands more.

I have not felt, nor believed in even the slightest malevolent presence that could be attributed to a keris.

However --- my wife had an an uncle, "had" because this gentleman had the ultimate spiritual experience many years ago. He had been a spiritual advisor to President Sukarno, and was a well known mystic. In 1982 he visited us, and during his visit he handled some of my keris. One of the keris he handled caused him such distress that he threw it to the floor and left the house as fast as he could, he literally screamed "hot -- hot -- hot ". From outside the house he asked me to take the keris away so he could come back in again. I did, and he did, and then he told me that he had felt a burning , frightening presence in that keris.

I still have this keris, a very old West Jawa keris, I enjoy handling it and feel no hot or evil presence at all.

However --- about ten years before my wife's uncle's visit I had a neighbour and his wife to dinner. I was living in a different house at the time, near Springwood in the Blue Mountains. This neighbour was a psychic who had unpredictable visions and had helped the local police in locating lost children, and at least one dead person. He was Hungarian and knew absolutely nothing about keris. He also handled the keris that uncle had handled. When he picked it up from the table where it and other keris were placed, this keris suddenly left his hands and hit the opposite wall of the room, my neighbour, who had been standing, fell to the floor. He became very unsettled and told me that he had experienced a feeling as if he was surrounded by blackness and evil pressing in on him. He went home a few minutes later.

As I said above:- I still have this keris and it has no effect on me whatsoever, except possibly a mild feeling of appreciation.

I'm absolutely with David on this matter:- any experience or feeling that might come from a keris is an intensely personal one.

I have a number of other stories about this sort of thing, but I think that the one I have just told is perhaps the best.

[Green]

A.G Maisey;

I was hoping for your comments and many many thanks for that! It is an incredible story and if it comes from ordinary folks here in Malaysia (or even Indonesia) - that have many such incredible stories as yours- I would find it extremely hard to believe, but since it comes from arguablly one of the best keris experts anywhere I think it's hard to refute your personal experience.

Still, i wonder what caused this? would love to know the background of the old keris that cause this incredible phenomenon and although I will understand if you won't post the pic, it would be really great to see the pic here.

[Green]

Originally Posted by David

That said, anyone feeling the need to rid themselves of any particularly maleficent or misbehaving blades is welcome to contact me privately for my mailing address...

David;

Funny thing you said that. That's exactly what happened to me about a month's back. A friend told me her friend wanted to sell an heirloom keris that was in the family for generations. this surprised me a bit as nobody usually sell heirloom keris. She told me that the owner is already dead and now the keris is passed down to one of his sons that didn't want to keep it anymore and hence it is offred to me which I bought literally for a song. (He was that keen to get rid off it).

When I brought home I had a bit of trepidation and slight bad feeling about it but soon get over it and become fond of it just like the rest of my very modest collection. If there's any truth to my son's claim that my kerises are disturbing his sleep I'd guess this would be the likely one doing it!... but I'd say with 99.9% confidence that my son's nightmare was just normal sleep experience and his attribution to the effect of my collection is just an autosuggestion due to the collective accumulation of the keris lores in our Malaysian/Indonesian culture.

[Gavin Nugent]

This is always a topic I find interesting and have my own ideas on the subject. The mind is a very powerful thing in either the controlled or uncontrolled state.

For those who have not seen this video, it is worth the watch and without the first hand experience of being there, I am sure it can for the most be taken with a grain of salt...
Keris are mentioned and shown briefly just past the 5 minute mark...nothing ground breaking but it is interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oam9wCFFids

Gavin

[Rick]

Dynamo Jack .
I remember him from the Ring of Fire series .
Ah, the mystical East .

It's unfortunate James 'The Amazing' Randi didn't get to test this guy when he was alive .
Randi offered a 1 million dollar reward available to anyone who could prove their powers .
Yellow Bamboo failed miserably .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ykNZ7rAcw
Still, I want to believe .

[David]

Yeah, i've watched the Dynamo Jack sequence from the Ring of Fire series many times. My feeling is that Jack had some real talents which he augmented with a few magic trick illusions. One of the most important parts of this type of healing work is belief, as it makes the patient more receptive to the energies allegedly being transmitted. A few of the things shown here (catching the bullet, starting fires) are relatively easy and well established magic tricks. But he does seem to transmit some real chi energies as well. Of course, these videos owe there success to presenting real mysteries, so it hard to tell how skeptical their approach really was.
However, this takes us way off the track of keris. There is a brief section of the video where we see a finely balanced keris move a little bit. Honestly, this is easy enough to do with wind or magnets, but even if it was the energy of a spirit within the keris it still does not speak to the malevolence question. Again, i've never met a keris that i have felt such an energy from.
If we are to continue along this line of discussion i think i would really like to see it directly specifically at keris and not at the rather large arena of psychic/metaphysical phenomenon.

[rasjid]

Hi David,

Just a quick note on dynamo Jack or jack chang, nothing to do with keris at all. I have reliable source and direct student of him in Indonesia, his skill is real and called nie-kung (not chi-kung as commonly known) direct from china. Agreed its not keris discussion.
Rasjid

[rasjid]

Green, I'm indonesian, chinese indonesian i would say. When started collecting keris, my first priority is on the aesthetic nothing else. Thats my statement to all the sellers from there, they will note telling you other stories. But if the first questions you ask the seller if you are looking for a keris that can make you rich or good in making friends etc than you will hear all stories that you would like to hear. The stories are for you to hear and make you wanna buy it

If aesthetic you wanna see than asked about the iron, the luk, kembang kacang etc the look of the keris. Learn from this forum, read a lot, ask a lot. I think a lot of senior members here like to help out.
I'm learning too.

If you bought something., anything really and you feel not comfortable than don't keep it. Sell it back or i will keep it on your behalf... just kidding...



Regards
Rasjid