Scissor Dagger ??

katana · 28th April 2012, 01:51 AM

Hi,
was watching an antiques programme on UK TV and this item appeared described as a unusual pair of scissors possibly of Damascus origin.
To me it looks like a 'concealed dagger' when closed, the finger 'loops' forming a functional handle.
Thinking that I had possibly seen 'weapon' in a utillitarian house hold object, I did a few searches to find out ........that these do exist ie scissor daggers

A few screen shots below, has anyone any more info ? who used these....women for protection ? assasins ? .....murderous Tailors

All comments gratefully received

David

Stan S. · 28th April 2012, 03:24 AM

Well, I have seen pictures of a couple of these scissor/daggers on-line (see pics), and some are still being manufactured in Asia for the tourist trade. Could a scissor be used to stab someone? Sure! However, I question these being intended to be used as a dagger - they seem like a rather inefficient weapon for stabbing despite having dagger-like blades. Just my 2 cents

colin henshaw · 28th April 2012, 09:18 AM

Hi David

I think these were used by calligraphers (scribes). For trimming paper.

katana · 28th April 2012, 04:21 PM

Hi Colin and Stan,
thanks for your input

I appreciate that 'any' scissors could be used as a weapon, and know that in several murder cases .......scissors were the weapon used. However, the example I've shown is an unusual 'configaration. The finger 'loops' , in a closed position form, a perfect hilt/handle. Although this does not mean that it is a weapon, it strongly suggest a double use. You could argue that the 'closed' position would make it more 'compact' for carrying purposes, but the positioning of the finger 'loops' make it more awkward to use as scissors and the advantage of a more 'compact' closed scissor 'gained' is not worthwhile

If the scissor/dagger does exist ...I believe this example is likely to be a 'real' one. Many of the other examples 'touted' as such ...just seem to be elongated, perhaps for a specific use ....tailor's scissors tend to be long, for instance, to give a more accurate cut for 'distance cutting.

All the best
David

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th April 2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Colin and Stan,
thanks for your input

I appreciate that 'any' scissors could be used as a weapon, and know that in several murder cases .......scissors were the weapon used. However, the example I've shown is an unusual 'configaration. The finger 'loops' , in a closed position form, a perfect hilt/handle. Although this does not mean that it is a weapon, it strongly suggest a double use. You could argue that the 'closed' position would make it more 'compact' for carrying purposes, but the positioning of the finger 'loops' make it more awkward to use as scissors and the advantage of a more 'compact' closed scissor 'gained' is not worthwhile

If the scissor/dagger does exist ...I believe this example is likely to be a 'real' one. Many of the other examples 'touted' as such ...just seem to be elongated, perhaps for a specific use ....tailor's scissors tend to be long, for instance, to give a more accurate cut for 'distance cutting.

All the best
David

Salaams Katana ~ These are caligraphy scissors not tailors and I suggest not as a weapon~ Very nice and well collectable.. Other items that go with it are the brass penholder?inkwell, pen rest, and penknife (for sharpening bamboo sticks as pens and quils. Beautiful scissors like these inlaid with gold for the highly specialised art of caligraphy.

In respect of the idea of scissor daggers I am trying to find a reference but no luck just yet... searching.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

katana · 29th April 2012, 02:54 AM

Salaams Ibrahiim,
I too cannot find a definative reference to scissor daggers being a genuine weapon. I do find that references refer mainly to Ottoman or Persian examples. Both civilisations were subject to subtifugue and assasination...perhaps there are a few genuine examples used by an assassin or perhaps as personel protection

There are so called reproductions of 14th Century European scissor daggers but cannot find an original version

Kind Regards David

VANDOO · 29th April 2012, 04:49 AM

OVER THE YEARS I HAVE SEEN SISSOR DAGGERS FOR SALE BUT NEVER HAD ONE. SOME WERE SAID TO LOOK LIKE SISSORS BUT DID NOT OPEN AND WERE A DOUBBLE EDGED BLADE. THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SAID TO COME FROM PERSIA OR MOGUL SOURCES.
I SUSPECT ANY THING OPENING LIKE A SISSORS AND HAVING NO EDGE TO THE OUTSIDE IS A SISSOR SOMETHING WITH A SOLID BLADE AND EDGES A TRUE DAGGER. PERHAPS SOMEONE HAS HANDLED ONE? IN DANGEROUS TIMES PERHAPS SOMETHING LIKE THIS WAS MADE AS A CONCEALED WEAPON.
SMALL PICTURE SAID TO HAVE BEEN MOGUL SISSOR DAGGER. OTHER ONE HAS TEXT.

VANDOO · 28th August 2012, 02:29 AM

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF SCISSOR DAGGER CLOSED ON EBY. 16.5 CM. LONG IDENTIFIED AS EUROPEAN ESTIMATED 1800 TO 1875. SELLERS INFO.

Timo Nieminen · 28th August 2012, 11:44 PM

Indian. You know those Indian knife-and-fork sets, with a carving-style kinfe and a carving-style fork that sit in a wooden holder, one inserted from each end? Those have guards in that style, complete with the hole (sometimes just a notch) for the latch to clip in/over. I have seen similar scissors a few times; this is such without the holder.

VANDOO · 29th August 2012, 01:12 AM

I HAVE A SET WITH KNIFE AND FORK BUT HAD NOT SEEN ONE WITH THE SCISSORS BEFORE. THANKS ANOTHER MYSTERY SOLVED.

28th April 2012, 01:51 AM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Scissor Dagger ?? Hi, was watching an antiques programme on UK TV and this item appeared described as a unusual pair of scissors possibly of Damascus origin. To me it looks like a 'concealed dagger' when closed, the finger 'loops' forming a functional handle. Thinking that I had possibly seen 'weapon' in a utillitarian house hold object, I did a few searches to find out ........that these do exist ie scissor daggers A few screen shots below, has anyone any more info ? who used these....women for protection ? assasins ? .....murderous Tailors All comments gratefully received David Attached Images

28th April 2012, 03:24 AM	#2
Stan S. Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA Posts: 227	Well, I have seen pictures of a couple of these scissor/daggers on-line (see pics), and some are still being manufactured in Asia for the tourist trade. Could a scissor be used to stab someone? Sure! However, I question these being intended to be used as a dagger - they seem like a rather inefficient weapon for stabbing despite having dagger-like blades. Just my 2 cents Attached Images

29th April 2012, 02:54 AM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Salaams Ibrahiim, I too cannot find a definative reference to scissor daggers being a genuine weapon. I do find that references refer mainly to Ottoman or Persian examples. Both civilisations were subject to subtifugue and assasination...perhaps there are a few genuine examples used by an assassin or perhaps as personel protection There are so called reproductions of 14th Century European scissor daggers but cannot find an original version Kind Regards David Last edited by katana; 29th April 2012 at 01:24 PM.

29th April 2012, 04:49 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	OVER THE YEARS I HAVE SEEN SISSOR DAGGERS FOR SALE BUT NEVER HAD ONE. SOME WERE SAID TO LOOK LIKE SISSORS BUT DID NOT OPEN AND WERE A DOUBBLE EDGED BLADE. THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SAID TO COME FROM PERSIA OR MOGUL SOURCES. I SUSPECT ANY THING OPENING LIKE A SISSORS AND HAVING NO EDGE TO THE OUTSIDE IS A SISSOR SOMETHING WITH A SOLID BLADE AND EDGES A TRUE DAGGER. PERHAPS SOMEONE HAS HANDLED ONE? IN DANGEROUS TIMES PERHAPS SOMETHING LIKE THIS WAS MADE AS A CONCEALED WEAPON. SMALL PICTURE SAID TO HAVE BEEN MOGUL SISSOR DAGGER. OTHER ONE HAS TEXT. Attached Images

28th August 2012, 02:29 AM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF SCISSOR DAGGER CLOSED ON EBY. 16.5 CM. LONG IDENTIFIED AS EUROPEAN ESTIMATED 1800 TO 1875. SELLERS INFO. Attached Images

28th April 2012, 09:18 AM	#3
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi David I think these were used by calligraphers (scribes). For trimming paper.

28th April 2012, 04:21 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Colin and Stan, thanks for your input I appreciate that 'any' scissors could be used as a weapon, and know that in several murder cases .......scissors were the weapon used. However, the example I've shown is an unusual 'configaration. The finger 'loops' , in a closed position form, a perfect hilt/handle. Although this does not mean that it is a weapon, it strongly suggest a double use. You could argue that the 'closed' position would make it more 'compact' for carrying purposes, but the positioning of the finger 'loops' make it more awkward to use as scissors and the advantage of a more 'compact' closed scissor 'gained' is not worthwhile If the scissor/dagger does exist ...I believe this example is likely to be a 'real' one. Many of the other examples 'touted' as such ...just seem to be elongated, perhaps for a specific use ....tailor's scissors tend to be long, for instance, to give a more accurate cut for 'distance cutting. All the best David

28th August 2012, 11:44 PM	#9
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	Indian. You know those Indian knife-and-fork sets, with a carving-style kinfe and a carving-style fork that sit in a wooden holder, one inserted from each end? Those have guards in that style, complete with the hole (sometimes just a notch) for the latch to clip in/over. I have seen similar scissors a few times; this is such without the holder.

29th August 2012, 01:12 AM	#10
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE A SET WITH KNIFE AND FORK BUT HAD NOT SEEN ONE WITH THE SCISSORS BEFORE. THANKS ANOTHER MYSTERY SOLVED.