Hidden wootz

archer · 4th November 2008, 09:53 PM

Lately I've been learning about etching with ferric chloride. The puzzle comes when you've used a light etch and don't see anything but a frosted look with your eyes. When the camera see's wootz. The latest CSI Miami had a bit about a fingerprints' acid doing a mild etch, not seen by the human eye on brass.
They enhanced it magnetically. Here's a couple of examples. The frosted is seen by eye. The other shows the camera seeing wootz? to the right and damascus on the left where blade was scarfed. Ok, have I lost it or does this make sense?

Steve

Lew · 4th November 2008, 11:48 PM

Archer

That is a strange one wootz from what I have heard is a bit brittle when it comes to armor piercing points and when they do break off they are often replaced with pattern welded or mono steel points

Can you post a pic of the entire dagger please

Lew

Rich · 4th November 2008, 11:58 PM

From a chemical standpoint, ferric chloride is a pretty strong etchant, maybe (???) you are over etching. Might try a lighter solution like lemon juice or vinegar. Just a thought.

Rich S

archer · 5th November 2008, 01:08 AM

Lou, I thought I read that finer crystalline wootz was used for added strength.
Hers the knife from a previous post. I thought that the joint was present , the etchant definitely confirmed it. Obtaining acids is a problem this is well diluted, maybe too much so. The fact that a low grade etches results are hard to see.
More shots in my post Zirah Bouk/Pesh Kabz, sorry I don't know how to link it.

Steve

I added another shot from top of weld.

RSWORD · 5th November 2008, 01:30 AM

Woostz can be very difficult to photograph, especially Indian crystalline damascus. I recommend taking the photograph outside in soft light, ie, early morning or in the evening when the sun isn't at its brightest. However, I can see from the pictures provided that the blade on the handle side of the scarf weld is pattern welded. I am noticing little pools and open lines like you see in Indian pattern welds. To the tip side of the scarf weld, it does appear to be very fine(as in low contrast, tight pattern) crystalline damascus woostz. Indian crystalline woostz is often just as you see, a tight pattern with very little visible contrast. You are probably not going to bring out that pattern much more boldly simply because it is not inherent in that form of woostz.

archer · 7th November 2008, 01:44 AM

RSword, Your comments caused me try again with ferric chloride that produced the circles you mentioned everywhere, I was pleased to see that when i applied baking soda paste the circles went away. I next tried phosphoric that brought a better definition and round spots lightly appearing in the fine crystal area. I have stopped for now on this one and will perhaps try again after i've learned more. Any suggestions on better technique or other things that might be productive.

Steve

4th November 2008, 09:53 PM	#1
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Hidden wootz Lately I've been learning about etching with ferric chloride. The puzzle comes when you've used a light etch and don't see anything but a frosted look with your eyes. When the camera see's wootz. The latest CSI Miami had a bit about a fingerprints' acid doing a mild etch, not seen by the human eye on brass. They enhanced it magnetically. Here's a couple of examples. The frosted is seen by eye. The other shows the camera seeing wootz? to the right and damascus on the left where blade was scarfed. Ok, have I lost it or does this make sense? Steve Attached Images

5th November 2008, 01:08 AM	#4
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	The pesh kabz in question Lou, I thought I read that finer crystalline wootz was used for added strength. Hers the knife from a previous post. I thought that the joint was present , the etchant definitely confirmed it. Obtaining acids is a problem this is well diluted, maybe too much so. The fact that a low grade etches results are hard to see. More shots in my post Zirah Bouk/Pesh Kabz, sorry I don't know how to link it. Steve I added another shot from top of weld. Attached Images Last edited by archer; 5th November 2008 at 01:45 AM.

7th November 2008, 01:44 AM	#6
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	more etching attempts RSword, Your comments caused me try again with ferric chloride that produced the circles you mentioned everywhere, I was pleased to see that when i applied baking soda paste the circles went away. I next tried phosphoric that brought a better definition and round spots lightly appearing in the fine crystal area. I have stopped for now on this one and will perhaps try again after i've learned more. Any suggestions on better technique or other things that might be productive. Steve Attached Images

4th November 2008, 11:48 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Archer That is a strange one wootz from what I have heard is a bit brittle when it comes to armor piercing points and when they do break off they are often replaced with pattern welded or mono steel points Can you post a pic of the entire dagger please Lew

4th November 2008, 11:58 PM	#3
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	From a chemical standpoint, ferric chloride is a pretty strong etchant, maybe (???) you are over etching. Might try a lighter solution like lemon juice or vinegar. Just a thought. Rich S

5th November 2008, 01:30 AM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Woostz can be very difficult to photograph, especially Indian crystalline damascus. I recommend taking the photograph outside in soft light, ie, early morning or in the evening when the sun isn't at its brightest. However, I can see from the pictures provided that the blade on the handle side of the scarf weld is pattern welded. I am noticing little pools and open lines like you see in Indian pattern welds. To the tip side of the scarf weld, it does appear to be very fine(as in low contrast, tight pattern) crystalline damascus woostz. Indian crystalline woostz is often just as you see, a tight pattern with very little visible contrast. You are probably not going to bring out that pattern much more boldly simply because it is not inherent in that form of woostz.