Help with ID and authentication of a Mandau?

Justin · 4th March 2005, 03:22 PM

Recently got this guy from ebay,doesnt look quite right for the typical mandau but it is a heavy sword blade is about 1/4in thick at the tang and tapers down gradually to the point,tang is twisted {helps hold the blade to the hilt?}.Blade is chisel ground on one side and 'hollowed out' on the other.I have seen talibons with a very similar cross section.There are a few nicks in the edge and the blade has been bent and straightened a time or two.

The hilt is some sort of wood looks like it was dyed,some of it has rubbed off in places.Has some nice but fairly simple carving towards the pommel,hair looks quite old and looks like it had more at some point.

blade 20 3/4 in long,o/a: 27 in

tom hyle · 4th March 2005, 05:27 PM

Looks like a mandau/parang ilang to me. The wood handle is not terribly unusual. The blade is not exactly what we usually see in N America, but is certainly of the general type, while the back side being actually hollowed rather than flat or slightly humped is something I've seen primarily if not only (searching memory....) out of Japan and Borneo. There is a more or less "typical" type of mandau we see over here, or two, really, if you count the "typical" Dyakk jimpul we sometimes also see, but IMHO this has more to do with what appeared in some book/what N Americans are looking for/percieved as looking for, because in reality I've seen a great profusion of native blades on mandau type mounts; chisel bevelled ones, centrally bevelled ones; straight ones, curved ones; swell-tipped, parallel-sided, or even tapered; clipped, truncated, squared, or back-swept tips; piercings filled and open, and okar of every type, including flamboyant split off and welded on extensions at the tip, along the sping, or at the ricassoe/shaft, or some that are completely plain. They do usually have an unsharp ricassoe/shaft; on the new forum I can't look at yours as I actually write.... Handles of wood, antler, or ivory. ferules and grip areas of pitch, cord, rattan-skin, sometimes bare handle material, and occasionally metal. I don't know what of these variations are regional, time related, tribal, economic, or what. The particularly wide tipped curved blade on yours is similar to newish ones I've seen, but that's far from conclusive, of course.
The twisted tang is intereting. I haven't seen a lot of mandau tangs, but those I have were more like those on other oceanic SE Asian cutting swords. This tang is similar, but then twisted like a k(e)ris or mata tombak tang......interesting, and it makes a strange geometric effect, what with being wider than thick, then twisted, so at the rear it's thicker than at the shoulders, yes?

Justin · 4th March 2005, 05:54 PM

it is thicker at the base than it is as you go farther towards the tip.

Tim Simmons · 4th March 2005, 08:39 PM

This seems to be the short working version of a larger usually more staight and more elaborately decoratated model,not to be confused with the so called Jimpul.Tim

Justin · 4th March 2005, 11:25 PM

Id say thats pretty much an exact match! How old is that piece?{its yours I assume?}

Conogre · 5th March 2005, 12:05 AM

I just finished examining Justin's piece in person, along with his Bagobo sword, and I'd have to say he did VERY well this tiome around.
The mandau blade is VERY solid, well aged and has probably half-again to twice the weight of my contemporary
sword and looks to be a true old warrior.
I love the rounded blade as opposed to the more common flat profile as it appears to give it an extreme advantage in strength.
Likewise, it has a very smooth feel to it that I suspect may conceal a very nice pattern underneath that's currently impossible to detect...the patina is extremely blackened as in VERY old good blades, IMHO 100% natural.
The one I have is very similar to Tim's and probably purely work oriented, although with the dramatic events in Borneo a few years ago, that's never a certainty.

Mike

4th March 2005, 03:22 PM	#1
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Help with ID and authentication of a Mandau? Recently got this guy from ebay,doesnt look quite right for the typical mandau but it is a heavy sword blade is about 1/4in thick at the tang and tapers down gradually to the point,tang is twisted {helps hold the blade to the hilt?}.Blade is chisel ground on one side and 'hollowed out' on the other.I have seen talibons with a very similar cross section.There are a few nicks in the edge and the blade has been bent and straightened a time or two. The hilt is some sort of wood looks like it was dyed,some of it has rubbed off in places.Has some nice but fairly simple carving towards the pommel,hair looks quite old and looks like it had more at some point. blade 20 3/4 in long,o/a: 27 in Attached Images Last edited by Justin; 4th March 2005 at 03:37 PM.

4th March 2005, 05:27 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Looks like a mandau/parang ilang to me. The wood handle is not terribly unusual. The blade is not exactly what we usually see in N America, but is certainly of the general type, while the back side being actually hollowed rather than flat or slightly humped is something I've seen primarily if not only (searching memory....) out of Japan and Borneo. There is a more or less "typical" type of mandau we see over here, or two, really, if you count the "typical" Dyakk jimpul we sometimes also see, but IMHO this has more to do with what appeared in some book/what N Americans are looking for/percieved as looking for, because in reality I've seen a great profusion of native blades on mandau type mounts; chisel bevelled ones, centrally bevelled ones; straight ones, curved ones; swell-tipped, parallel-sided, or even tapered; clipped, truncated, squared, or back-swept tips; piercings filled and open, and okar of every type, including flamboyant split off and welded on extensions at the tip, along the sping, or at the ricassoe/shaft, or some that are completely plain. They do usually have an unsharp ricassoe/shaft; on the new forum I can't look at yours as I actually write.... Handles of wood, antler, or ivory. ferules and grip areas of pitch, cord, rattan-skin, sometimes bare handle material, and occasionally metal. I don't know what of these variations are regional, time related, tribal, economic, or what. The particularly wide tipped curved blade on yours is similar to newish ones I've seen, but that's far from conclusive, of course. The twisted tang is intereting. I haven't seen a lot of mandau tangs, but those I have were more like those on other oceanic SE Asian cutting swords. This tang is similar, but then twisted like a k(e)ris or mata tombak tang......interesting, and it makes a strange geometric effect, what with being wider than thick, then twisted, so at the rear it's thicker than at the shoulders, yes? Last edited by tom hyle; 4th March 2005 at 05:38 PM.

4th March 2005, 08:39 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	This seems to be the short working version of a larger usually more staight and more elaborately decoratated model,not to be confused with the so called Jimpul.Tim Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 4th March 2005 at 09:29 PM.

4th March 2005, 05:54 PM	#3
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	it is thicker at the base than it is as you go farther towards the tip.

4th March 2005, 11:25 PM	#5
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Id say thats pretty much an exact match! How old is that piece?{its yours I assume?}

5th March 2005, 12:05 AM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I just finished examining Justin's piece in person, along with his Bagobo sword, and I'd have to say he did VERY well this tiome around. The mandau blade is VERY solid, well aged and has probably half-again to twice the weight of my contemporary sword and looks to be a true old warrior. I love the rounded blade as opposed to the more common flat profile as it appears to give it an extreme advantage in strength. Likewise, it has a very smooth feel to it that I suspect may conceal a very nice pattern underneath that's currently impossible to detect...the patina is extremely blackened as in VERY old good blades, IMHO 100% natural. The one I have is very similar to Tim's and probably purely work oriented, although with the dramatic events in Borneo a few years ago, that's never a certainty. Mike