Warangan?

capt.smash · 4th February 2005, 12:38 PM

Hi guys im interested in the staining of krisses and i have braught a cheap one in need of restoration to experiment on.As it is not possible for me to obtain any arsenic trioxide witch seems to be a tried and tested method...i think it might be interesting to try some of the other forms of arsenic like realgar and orpiment both of witch can be obtained easily.I have read some past threads on the subject and in the case of Warangan...does anybody know what it actualy is [its scientific name]?i cant find any pictures of it ..all i have read is that it is pinkish in colour[orpiment is yellow and realgar is red]is it in fact realgar?
Does anybody have any pictures of warangan and have you tried any of the other methods and what degree of result did you have?
thanks smashy.

p.s all spelling is subject to the readers reality tunnel.

nechesh · 4th February 2005, 06:33 PM

Hey Smash Man, here's a link that Rasdan started on the subject that he posted photos of the stuff on. The photos don't seem to show anymore, but perhaps they can be restored or shown by again by Rasdan.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=Warangan

Michel · 4th February 2005, 10:14 PM

Hi Captain,
You are bringing up a question which has been extensively discussed in previous thread and with a little bit of searching in the old forum threads you will find good answers, but to my recollection all the answers indicate that if you want a good result namely a clear opposition between the nickel and the steel of the kriss you have to utilize arsenic, which in our countries is really difficult to get.
As I was living in Malaysia, I had the great chance of meeting several times Nik Rashidin Nik Hussein, a very talented wood sculptor, who was also a great kriss collector. Nik Din, as his nick name was, gave me the following formula, to achieve a decent staining,(if it is the right words) of the kriss blade :
10 of sulfur, 1 of salt, grind until it is very a fine powder, mix with rice water, dip the blade in the mixture for ½ a day, one day, 2 days it all depend of the circumstances, wash and oil.
I did it several time with satisfactory results but you have to watch the progress. You therefore have to wash and clean the blade after 6 hours look carefully and decide how many additional hours you want to leave it and re-dip the blade in the mixture which will have turned black when in contact with the metal.
Attached you will find 2 picturtes of a blade before and after treatment. Not very good picture !! sorry.

The mixture is corrosive but slowly. Attached is a kriss panjang that I forged and treated. You can see how the mixture slowly has eaten up the blade and its ganja. It is a way to age a blade.
Have fun !

Michel

rasdan · 5th February 2005, 02:58 AM

Hi guys,

Heres the link to the thread:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10

Below are the pictures of the warangan in the above thread.

capt.smash · 5th February 2005, 05:34 PM

Hi guys thanks for the replys and the pictures ......i have posted some pictures or realgar[arsenic sulfide]the red one ...and orpiment[arsenic trisulfide]the yellow,both of these are easily obtainable[ebay]

.What i realy wanted to know was if anyone had tried to use either of these ores in place of the waranga[witch visualy seems to be a diffrent type of arsenic ore][does anyone know the mineral name for waranga?].I was thinking that technicaly either of these should work in the same way and that someone must have tried it.

rasdan · 6th February 2005, 06:31 AM

Hi Capt,

From what i know, warangan is realgar. And yours looks much better with a higher arscenic sulphate content. Unfortunately i havent had the oportunity to use neither since arscenic is a controlled mineral in Malaysia.

Perhaps others had experience.

capt.smash · 6th February 2005, 11:58 AM

Hi Rasdan thanks that was the info i was after...incidentaly i have looked into Realgar and aparently it is an unstable mineral it eventualy alters to a diffrent mineral called pararealgar and after that to powder[it is recomended to keep it in the dark and out of direct sunlight as this causes the colour to fade]...i wonder if the specimen you had was mined and stored long enough for it to alter and lose some of its colour...i have no ideah if this afects the arsenic content or mabe im thinking that mabe they let it alter on purpose as this would make it easier to crush and powder.
Anyway im going to order some and give it a try and ill post my results.
smashy

capt.smash · 15th March 2005, 03:19 PM

HI guys i thaught id update this thread.After some experimentation i have discovred that Realgar [Arsenic sulfide] works very well once powdred[it crushes easily] and added with most citrus juice[i used grapefruit juice & also tried pineapple ]realgar is easily sourced as a mineral[ebay] so now everyone has the chance to have some fun and can have a go if they wish .

[BUT BE CAREFUL THIS IS POISON AFTER ALL]

I also tried orpiment[arsenic trisulfide]but found it hard to powder and didnt work as well.

BSMStar · 20th March 2005, 12:01 AM

Hi Captain!

Something I tried a long number of years ago on silver (to artificially "oxidize" it), is Liver of Sulfur (Potassium Sulfide). I have not tried it with iron (yet), but since it is chemical similar to Arsenic sulfide and leaves a black "stained" surface, it just might do the trick.

It is more readily available than Arsenic sulfide, and safer to work with too (but use plenty of ventilation), it just may be a good substitute. Buy it in dry form, mix about one to two teaspoons to one pint of hot water, and use within 48 hours. It will lose strength over time (that is the rotten eggs you smell as the sulfur leaves).

Let me know if you need more info. I would be interested in the results of any experiments made with this sulfide solution. I may work better in mild acid solution like lime juice...

Best regards,

BSMStar

4th February 2005, 12:38 PM	#1
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Warangan? Hi guys im interested in the staining of krisses and i have braught a cheap one in need of restoration to experiment on.As it is not possible for me to obtain any arsenic trioxide witch seems to be a tried and tested method...i think it might be interesting to try some of the other forms of arsenic like realgar and orpiment both of witch can be obtained easily.I have read some past threads on the subject and in the case of Warangan...does anybody know what it actualy is [its scientific name]?i cant find any pictures of it ..all i have read is that it is pinkish in colour[orpiment is yellow and realgar is red]is it in fact realgar? Does anybody have any pictures of warangan and have you tried any of the other methods and what degree of result did you have? thanks smashy. p.s all spelling is subject to the readers reality tunnel.

4th February 2005, 06:33 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Smash Man, here's a link that Rasdan started on the subject that he posted photos of the stuff on. The photos don't seem to show anymore, but perhaps they can be restored or shown by again by Rasdan. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=Warangan Last edited by nechesh; 5th February 2005 at 02:51 AM.

4th February 2005, 10:14 PM	#3
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	Hi Captain, You are bringing up a question which has been extensively discussed in previous thread and with a little bit of searching in the old forum threads you will find good answers, but to my recollection all the answers indicate that if you want a good result namely a clear opposition between the nickel and the steel of the kriss you have to utilize arsenic, which in our countries is really difficult to get. As I was living in Malaysia, I had the great chance of meeting several times Nik Rashidin Nik Hussein, a very talented wood sculptor, who was also a great kriss collector. Nik Din, as his nick name was, gave me the following formula, to achieve a decent staining,(if it is the right words) of the kriss blade : 10 of sulfur, 1 of salt, grind until it is very a fine powder, mix with rice water, dip the blade in the mixture for ½ a day, one day, 2 days it all depend of the circumstances, wash and oil. I did it several time with satisfactory results but you have to watch the progress. You therefore have to wash and clean the blade after 6 hours look carefully and decide how many additional hours you want to leave it and re-dip the blade in the mixture which will have turned black when in contact with the metal. Attached you will find 2 picturtes of a blade before and after treatment. Not very good picture !! sorry. The mixture is corrosive but slowly. Attached is a kriss panjang that I forged and treated. You can see how the mixture slowly has eaten up the blade and its ganja. It is a way to age a blade. Have fun ! Michel Attached Images

5th February 2005, 02:58 AM	#4
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi guys, Heres the link to the thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10 Below are the pictures of the warangan in the above thread. Attached Images

5th February 2005, 05:34 PM	#5
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Hi guys thanks for the replys and the pictures ......i have posted some pictures or realgar[arsenic sulfide]the red one ...and orpiment[arsenic trisulfide]the yellow,both of these are easily obtainable[ebay] .What i realy wanted to know was if anyone had tried to use either of these ores in place of the waranga[witch visualy seems to be a diffrent type of arsenic ore][does anyone know the mineral name for waranga?].I was thinking that technicaly either of these should work in the same way and that someone must have tried it. Attached Images

6th February 2005, 06:31 AM	#6
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi Capt, From what i know, warangan is realgar. And yours looks much better with a higher arscenic sulphate content. Unfortunately i havent had the oportunity to use neither since arscenic is a controlled mineral in Malaysia. Perhaps others had experience.

6th February 2005, 11:58 AM	#7
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Hi Rasdan thanks that was the info i was after...incidentaly i have looked into Realgar and aparently it is an unstable mineral it eventualy alters to a diffrent mineral called pararealgar and after that to powder[it is recomended to keep it in the dark and out of direct sunlight as this causes the colour to fade]...i wonder if the specimen you had was mined and stored long enough for it to alter and lose some of its colour...i have no ideah if this afects the arsenic content or mabe im thinking that mabe they let it alter on purpose as this would make it easier to crush and powder. Anyway im going to order some and give it a try and ill post my results. smashy

15th March 2005, 03:19 PM	#8
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	HI guys i thaught id update this thread.After some experimentation i have discovred that Realgar [Arsenic sulfide] works very well once powdred[it crushes easily] and added with most citrus juice[i used grapefruit juice & also tried pineapple ]realgar is easily sourced as a mineral[ebay] so now everyone has the chance to have some fun and can have a go if they wish . [BUT BE CAREFUL THIS IS POISON AFTER ALL] I also tried orpiment[arsenic trisulfide]but found it hard to powder and didnt work as well. Attached Images

20th March 2005, 12:01 AM	#9
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Something else to consider.... Hi Captain! Something I tried a long number of years ago on silver (to artificially "oxidize" it), is Liver of Sulfur (Potassium Sulfide). I have not tried it with iron (yet), but since it is chemical similar to Arsenic sulfide and leaves a black "stained" surface, it just might do the trick. It is more readily available than Arsenic sulfide, and safer to work with too (but use plenty of ventilation), it just may be a good substitute. Buy it in dry form, mix about one to two teaspoons to one pint of hot water, and use within 48 hours. It will lose strength over time (that is the rotten eggs you smell as the sulfur leaves). Let me know if you need more info. I would be interested in the results of any experiments made with this sulfide solution. I may work better in mild acid solution like lime juice... Best regards, BSMStar