New club Tupiniquim Tupi people?

Tim Simmons · 10th November 2016, 07:43 PM

This club will be familiar to those who keep an eye on ebay listings. It has been around for at least the last 6 months? and the price was lowered some time ago but still very high for an unidentified club. Clearly old, unusual and interesting, was catching collectors eyes with a constant 30 watchers. But where from? nobody would bite! The seller covered all likely bases Oceanic + Amazon + rare. Rare is never a good word to use. However in this case the use of rare to promote sale, is I believe quite possibly the case. Though just a matter of luck. While researching Amazon clubs I came across this site many many months ago :

http://www.armasbrasil.com/Indio/bordunas.htm

Today I looked again at the club. At times to identify a weapons origin only one feature may be the pointer. I feel that is so here. The picture in the link is not the best but look very hard and closely at the handle end. Now compare the handle end of the club from ebay which I have taken a punt on. The seller was right in one way that it is South American {not Amazon}, Brazil in fact but the Atlantic sea board and inland. The link suggests the example shown is from the Rio Tibirica headwaters. The Tibirica is 90 km long so a coastal river. I propose that my new club is coastal Brazil most probably Tupi speaking people. If so this will be an old rare piece. I just have to wait for the arrival. It is certainly not Oceanic as in Melanesian or Polynesian.

Tim Simmons · 11th November 2016, 04:19 PM

Find much different spellings of language speakers and tribes/nations. Tupi may be the language family but people {tribes} would have there own Tupi language. This map helps place indigenous people and languages. In this map the Rio Tibirica area the spelling is Tupinamba. There also seems to to a Tupinamba speaking region to the north. The inland hills and possibly Rio Tibirica head waters may be Ge speakers. I am sure you all wanted to know this??

VANDOO · 11th November 2016, 06:12 PM

GLAD TO SEE YOU GOT THIS ONE AND EVEN FOUND A LIKELY ORIGIN. YOU ARE CORRECT IN ASSUMING WE WERE WATCHING BUT THE PRICE WAS PROHIBITIVE. I OFTEN WONDER WHY SELLERS PUT SUCH RIDICULOUS PRICES ON SOMETHING THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT

I AM SURE ITS NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THAT MUCH MONEY IN THE ITEMS. CONGRATULATIONS IT IS A GOOD OLD BEAUTY I AM ENVIOUS BUT AT LEAST I WILL NO LONGER HAVE TO WATCH AND WAIT FOR THEM TO DROP THE PRICE TO A REASONABLE ONE.

Sajen · 11th November 2016, 09:19 PM

Hello Tim,

yes, was on my watch list as well. I am sure that you will do further research to clear the origin, I see what you mean but this is a little bit poor by one unclear picture. But like you I thought that it is a South American club. Nice piece and worth the money!

Regards,
Detlef

LJ · 11th November 2016, 10:55 PM

It's worth a look at the online catalogue of 'Museum of the American Indian' website, where there is a club with a similarly strigated striking end and a flange at the handle end.

LJ · 11th November 2016, 10:57 PM

Oh yes, and I should have said that you need to narrow your search down to items from the Amazon region !

fireiceviper · 14th November 2016, 06:18 PM

HEy! i was watching that! hoping it would go down a little bit more...

Glad you got it though... not a lot of space left here!,

The club looks quite old! the picture is too unclear for me to compare the 2 though...

Tim Simmons · 14th November 2016, 08:34 PM

Yes the link picture is not that good but I think you can see the similarity in style. So much of what we study is governed by small details. I could show many clubs following a style of manufacture unmistakable to an area of origin. Yes it would have been nice if the price had come down further but I may have lost it. Sometimes when collecting you have to pay the dealers price or you do not move forward. Which is a pain.

Tim Simmons · 15th November 2016, 05:16 PM

Now I have it in my hands I am happy. Bit on the pricey side but it is a nice old piece. It sports the remnants of two old labels, close up pictures. I would very much like it to be South American however now I think it is most likely from the New Hebridies (which is good) . The decoration is something I have not seen before. Might still be South American wishful thinking?

10th November 2016, 07:43 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	New club Tupiniquim Tupi people? This club will be familiar to those who keep an eye on ebay listings. It has been around for at least the last 6 months? and the price was lowered some time ago but still very high for an unidentified club. Clearly old, unusual and interesting, was catching collectors eyes with a constant 30 watchers. But where from? nobody would bite! The seller covered all likely bases Oceanic + Amazon + rare. Rare is never a good word to use. However in this case the use of rare to promote sale, is I believe quite possibly the case. Though just a matter of luck. While researching Amazon clubs I came across this site many many months ago : http://www.armasbrasil.com/Indio/bordunas.htm Today I looked again at the club. At times to identify a weapons origin only one feature may be the pointer. I feel that is so here. The picture in the link is not the best but look very hard and closely at the handle end. Now compare the handle end of the club from ebay which I have taken a punt on. The seller was right in one way that it is South American {not Amazon}, Brazil in fact but the Atlantic sea board and inland. The link suggests the example shown is from the Rio Tibirica headwaters. The Tibirica is 90 km long so a coastal river. I propose that my new club is coastal Brazil most probably Tupi speaking people. If so this will be an old rare piece. I just have to wait for the arrival. It is certainly not Oceanic as in Melanesian or Polynesian. Attached Images

11th November 2016, 04:19 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Find much different spellings of language speakers and tribes/nations. Tupi may be the language family but people {tribes} would have there own Tupi language. This map helps place indigenous people and languages. In this map the Rio Tibirica area the spelling is Tupinamba. There also seems to to a Tupinamba speaking region to the north. The inland hills and possibly Rio Tibirica head waters may be Ge speakers. I am sure you all wanted to know this?? Attached Images

15th November 2016, 05:16 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Now I have it in my hands I am happy. Bit on the pricey side but it is a nice old piece. It sports the remnants of two old labels, close up pictures. I would very much like it to be South American however now I think it is most likely from the New Hebridies (which is good) . The decoration is something I have not seen before. Might still be South American wishful thinking? Attached Images

11th November 2016, 06:12 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	GLAD TO SEE YOU GOT THIS ONE AND EVEN FOUND A LIKELY ORIGIN. YOU ARE CORRECT IN ASSUMING WE WERE WATCHING BUT THE PRICE WAS PROHIBITIVE. I OFTEN WONDER WHY SELLERS PUT SUCH RIDICULOUS PRICES ON SOMETHING THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT I AM SURE ITS NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THAT MUCH MONEY IN THE ITEMS. CONGRATULATIONS IT IS A GOOD OLD BEAUTY I AM ENVIOUS BUT AT LEAST I WILL NO LONGER HAVE TO WATCH AND WAIT FOR THEM TO DROP THE PRICE TO A REASONABLE ONE.

11th November 2016, 09:19 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Tim, yes, was on my watch list as well. I am sure that you will do further research to clear the origin, I see what you mean but this is a little bit poor by one unclear picture. But like you I thought that it is a South American club. Nice piece and worth the money! Regards, Detlef

11th November 2016, 10:55 PM	#5
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	It's worth a look at the online catalogue of 'Museum of the American Indian' website, where there is a club with a similarly strigated striking end and a flange at the handle end.

11th November 2016, 10:57 PM	#6
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	Oh yes, and I should have said that you need to narrow your search down to items from the Amazon region !

14th November 2016, 06:18 PM	#7
fireiceviper Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 87	HEy! i was watching that! hoping it would go down a little bit more... Glad you got it though... not a lot of space left here!, The club looks quite old! the picture is too unclear for me to compare the 2 though...

14th November 2016, 08:34 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Yes the link picture is not that good but I think you can see the similarity in style. So much of what we study is governed by small details. I could show many clubs following a style of manufacture unmistakable to an area of origin. Yes it would have been nice if the price had come down further but I may have lost it. Sometimes when collecting you have to pay the dealers price or you do not move forward. Which is a pain.