New Visayan Bolo

[Robert]

Hello everyone, I picked up this bolo/binagon a few days ago because; 1. It was cheep. 2. I liked the carving on the sheath and 3. Except for the fact the hilt is missing the blade itself is in great condition. Now for the questions. Is the figure on the sheath meant to represent a turtle, what would the hilt have looked like and finally can anyone tell me what group/tribe made this piece? The blade itself is 11-7/8 inches with a 3 inch tang. While being just over 1/4 inch thick it is 1-5/8 inches at its widest point. These are the auction photos. Any and all information on this would be greatly appreciated, especially a photo of what the missing hilt would have looked like.

Best,
Robert

[Sajen]

Hello Robert,

intersting item, like the scabbard. Have seen it as well (great price!) but decided to pass on this one because I have already so much restauration projects. I have bought from the same seller this "Bicol" sword with the wooden handle. I think by the look to the scabbard style that it is a very old Visayan sword. And I think that it could have had every Visayan hilt style since I have seen this blade style already with different hilts, figural and the typical rounded plain hilt. The missing hilt and the problem to get a hilt let me pass on this. Wish you good luck for the search to a fitting hilt.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Here is one hilt style your blade could has had. This Visayan sword/bolo I have bought recently for a similar good price like you have paid. Like you see both swords has a very similar blade shape.

[Sajen]

And here you can see a figural hilt style which would also could has been on your blade: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bicol

So I think you have all options open. But I think it's a difficult undertaking, so again good luck for this project.

Best,
Detlef

[Robert]

Hello Detlef and thank you for your replies to my question on the hilt. The first hilt you posted with the long metal ferrule is pretty standard for blades of this style but all of the ones that I remember seeing (that still had their scabbards) the scabbards had leather throat pieces. The scabbards carved belt attachment and the small size is what intrigued me the most about this piece. That is why I am trying to find out if this used one like the first one posted of if it used one of that style but without the metal ferrule or perhaps one completely different from what has been suggested so far? I have an older hilt that is wood only and though it has a few cracks and is in need of some TLC I was wondering if it might be a more appropriate one for this particular bolo? Here are three photos of it, one with it with the blade set somewhat in place.

Best,
Robert

[Ian]

Robert:

I believe the original item of discussion here is most probably a tenegre from the western Visayas, probably Panay, and almost certainly of Ilongo manufacture.

As such, the choice of hilts would most likely be the traditional little daemon fella, or the stylized version of it that Zelbone once described as a "chicken head" (based on the use of that description by a local Visayan).

Here is a picture that Zel posted some time ago. The center one looks similar to your example and that would probably be a reasonable hilt for it. I think it was probably a working bolo but it could be used as a weapon too.

[BTW I see quite a few recent references to Bicol knives and swords on the site. Many of these look like Visayan pieces to me and I am having difficulty reconciling a Bicol origin for them. While I can see some diffusion of styles might occur into Bicol, these recent discussions remind me of similar discussions about 10 years ago when the distinction between Visayan and Batangan knives was a lively topic. Zelbone (in particular) and Laban Tayo were helpful in sorting some of that out. I think we need a little more discussion on the Bicol knives, with some solid historical evidence to indicate the styles of knives and swords there. The descriptions of eBay sellers are notoriously unreliable.]

Ian.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Robert

Hello Detlef and thank you for your replies to my question on the hilt. The first hilt you posted with the long metal ferrule is pretty standard for blades of this style but all of the ones that I remember seeing (that still had their scabbards) the scabbards had leather throat pieces. The scabbards carved belt attachment and the small size is what intrigued me the most about this piece. That is why I am trying to find out if this used one like the first one posted of if it used one of that style but without the metal ferrule or perhaps one completely different from what has been suggested so far? I have an older hilt that is wood only and though it has a few cracks and is in need of some TLC I was wondering if it might be a more appropriate one for this particular bolo? Here are three photos of it, one with it with the blade set somewhat in place.

Best,
Robert

Hello Robert,

the shown bolo seems to has a replacement hilt from the former owner IMHO. I think like this because the used wood is so bright and simple carved.

Like written before, I think that your bolo with missing hilt has a great age and we only can guess how the hilt has looked original. When I have seen the ebay listing I was thinking already how a handle has to look for this blade but come to a conclusion.

Best,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

I think we need a little more discussion on the Bicol knives, with some solid historical evidence to indicate the styles of knives and swords there. The descriptions of eBay sellers are notoriously unreliable.

Hello Ian,

agree complete with you.

[Robert]

Hello Robert,
the shown bolo seems to has a replacement hilt from the former owner IMHO. I think like this because the used wood is so bright and simple carved.

Detlef, the bolo shown in the photo is the one I just acquired shown with a very old wood hilt that I have had for a while. This hilt has several cracks and splits that would require a bit of repair but that is a simple fix. Because it is such a simple hilt I thought it might be a better match with this blade and sheath and possibly be a more accurate example of how the original hilt might have looked.


Ian, I agree that this was originally intended to be a working bolo and as such it would more than likely have been much simpler in it decoration. The scabbards in the photo that you have posted above demonstrates what I was referring to earlier about the differences in the scabbard designs. All of your examples have the leather throat pieces and use a completely different manor of securing them when being worn than my example.
The wooden hilt that I have shown is a very simple version of what you refer to as "chicken head". It just does not use the metal ferrule that is shown on both Detlefs and your examples. Because of the poor quality of my photograph, the distortion from the cracks and splits as well as the wear from years of use it is hard to see the actual lines of carving that were once more prominent on this hilt. I was thinking of repairing and using it solely because of its very simple form as I thought it might make for a better match than one of the more elaborate hilts with the metal ferrule. As there is no great need to rehilt this at the present time I do not intend on doing anything (as far as hilt replacement is concerned) until I have done more research on this and hopefully received more input from forum members. Do you have any thoughts on the carving on the scabbard as to what it might represent?

Originally Posted by Ian
I think we need a little more discussion on the Bicol knives, with some solid historical evidence to indicate the styles of knives and swords there. The descriptions of eBay sellers are notoriously unreliable.

I also agree with this and suggest that a separate thread be started for this purpose.

Best,
Robert

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Ian

[BTW I see quite a few recent references to Bicol knives and swords on the site. Many of these look like Visayan pieces to me and I am having difficulty reconciling a Bicol origin for them. While I can see some diffusion of styles might occur into Bicol, these recent discussions remind me of similar discussions about 10 years ago when the distinction between Visayan and Batangan knives was a lively topic.

Hi Ian,

Would you provide a link to this discussion. Also, Nacho and Migueldiaz in private communiques informed me that there is a legend of some Borneo dates who came to Panay and then to Bicol, and thus perhaps the reason for similarities in hilt designs.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Robert

Detlef, the bolo shown in the photo is the one I just acquired shown with a very old wood hilt that I have had for a while. This hilt has several cracks and splits that would require a bit of repair but that is a simple fix. Because it is such a simple hilt I thought it might be a better match with this blade and sheath and possibly be a more accurate example of how the original hilt might have looked.

Oh, now I understand! When you have this hilt use it! Better this one as no one! You still can change the hilt when you have better informations or a better fitting hilt.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Robert

I also agree with this and suggest that a separate thread be started for this purpose.

Why don't use the thread about my three possible Bicol swords for this purpose?